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Mazda CX-5 TSB Turbo Engines - Oil Consumption

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  #41  
Old 01-26-2022, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by reubenvabner
Thank you for the clarification. ChickDR19. I thought the Gentleman was saying that it was std. for the CX-5 Turbo to shift at those points. I now get it
that what he is describing is how he likes to take it up while accelerating. I like my gas mileage with the NA motor, especially where the price of gasoline is
today and where it will go this Summer. I don't own EXXON stock so have no reason to burn gas like water. I can't afford it with retirement income at 968 Years
of Age. I have had people call me a F_G on other forums because of my driving. Mind you I get it up to 80mph plenty of times on the Highway when I have cover
from other cars, front, back, sides. Maybe 80-85 mph sometimes, then I bring it down as I like chatting with police but not when pulled over I don't have radar. Do
you, just as a point of interest? Who invests in radar? Just curious.

Thank you again and a permanent thanks to Callisto who always has something very thoughtful and with deep mechanical knowledge to add.

God bless you both.
LOL I usually drive the speed limits. Its a basic math formula. Why burn more fuel going faster when you only arrive minutes sooner? LOL And if you get a speed violation there goes 6 months of what could have been spent on fuel? Now mind you there are days and times I break all the rules, but I look listen and make sure I don't endanger myself others or at least can see if there may be a police cruiser waiting . And in the twisty mountains I defiantly play and even chase Sport Bikes but that is with my MNI not my MAZDA. lol
And for those stop light to stop light challenges, I save that for the PT Cruiser. It is a super sleeper for most unsuspecting teen ager even in a Mustang or Charger. They get spanked hard and learn what a Turbo Chrgaed, Nitrous fed 4 cylinder can do . LOL
 
  #42  
Old 01-26-2022, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Callisto
Interesting because you mileage in the real world should be the same. You are not in Turbo "boost" all of the time and mostly in NA so technically you should under normal driving with good throttle habits get the same or very close to the same MPG between a NA and Turbo MAZDA Skyactiv engine.
This can clearly be seen using a OBDII monitor and watching the timing vs RPM and the % of throttle vs the instant and "true" mpg (not the dash monitor which is "smoothed" for easy reading).
I might add that on soft DYNO run between the MAZDA Turbo and NA the engine produced the exact same power and torque. So this would also support both engines should get the same MPG when the Turbo is not boosting. I should also mention that boost levels are scaled so even in most average daily drivers when throttling even during passing or merging onto a highway seldom boost level beyond 50% for that short time accelerating to desired speeds.
It is certainly interesting as I don't drive the '21 turbo any differently than I did with my '19 NA. If anything I likely hit the throttle more robustly in the '19 as it needed more input to get up to speed. It seems to me the turbo just uses more fuel. I am just reporting the MPG from my gauge cluster, but it is quite a bit lower for sure based upon needing to fill up more frequently.
 
  #43  
Old 01-26-2022, 09:30 PM
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Wink Oil Consumption 101 - the basics

Originally Posted by Callisto
Um you do realize that it is the oil scrapers NOT the compression rings that control oil. And actually, **running up the RPM prevent or at least support preventing cylinder glaze which could in effect cause oil to be passed and burned. So, your statement once again makes very little sense. that is for some of us that know better??
Oh Callisto, please forgive me as I genuflect to your (alleged) superior knowledge, sir.

Um, do you realize that oil gets past the oil scrapers and exploded combustion gasses get past the compression rings? All the time? That's why we check our oil, that's why we change our oil, that's why we have PCV valves which meter the pressure that leaks into and builds up in the crankcase (from compression losses from the cylinder) back into the intake air to prevent engine seal failure and vapors leaking to the atmosphere, among other things. Oil turns black because of soot from incomplete combustion. But wait, if the combustion is in the cylinder on the cylinder side of the compression rings, how does the soot end up in the oil in your perfect scenario of rings and scrapers magic? It's called blow-by, which is not only for old engines with worn rings.

Even in newer engines, hi-rpm running under load causes losses in the scrapers scavenging all the oil back to the crankcase, especially cars like the Mazda CX-5 which run super low-viscosity 0W-20 oil. That oil loss - as minimal as it may be - wets the inside of the cylinder walls and gets burned away during combustion. Again this burn-off is specifically enhanced during the high-rpm revving as the cylinder temperatures are higher due to faster combustion rates vs. heat scavenged from the cylinder walls by the coolant. This can result in that tell-tale blue-ish smoke you sometimes see in your rearview mirror when you step on the accelerator and kick down a gear or two to pass someone at speed, revving the engine to the redline or rev limiter.

There are laws of physics involved that you're completely ignoring.

I tend not to go around making statements to people I don't know that I "know better", but in this instance, I'm fairly confident you've been one-upped. Good day sir.
 
  #44  
Old 01-27-2022, 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted by reubenvabner
The Turbo takes it up to 4,800 rpm as standard shift points? The 2.5L NA is geared nothing like that. Why would the Turbo take it up that high?
Would that not result in a HUGE decrease in MPG compared with the 2.5L NA? Does the Turbo always kick in as you upshifting your way through the speedometer?

I am just a year short of Methuselah's record and I have no desire to redline an engine any longer. Maybe I should go on Testosterone therapy.

Best Wishes, RMV
Sorry I got it wrong! With your foot mashed to the floor, the Turbo shifts at about 5,200 rpm, and redline is about 900 higher. The only way to get there, however, is to put it in Sport mode and slide the shifter into manual mode and upshift at the rev limiter, which is just silly because in the last 900 rpms the engine is dropping in horsepower dramatically, sucking wind, and it sounds sad. Check this out:

You can see the point of dropoff in the torque and horsepower numbers happening at about the same location on the chart with either low or high octane fuel. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that letting the computer do the shifting for you is best. After the 5,200 rpms it just sounds awful and feels anemic. But WOW is that low-end torque fun! It really pulls you around town quite effortlessly. And the way the gears (only 6) and final drive ratio multiply the torque, you leave people from stoplights and shock the hell out of them. It's a sleeper racer.

And yes, the turbo stays on boil throughout an acceleration run. Every shift just pulls with a fervor! It reminds me of the 1986 Mazda 626 GT Turbo I had when I was 22 years old. That car was a blast! The CX-5 tickles your youngster funny bone when you have the windows open and can hear the turbo's wastegate make that pssshhh sound when you jump off the throttle after a dash of acceleration. One thing that's a bummer is that the computer is quick to shift into second gear as you round a corner after a stop sign. I'm not a kid anymore so I'm no longer stomping on the gas pulling around a corner (ok, from a stop that is) as I'm not trying to make the tires squeal (which it will!). But, once around the corner if you need to hustle, stomping on the accelerator slams the transmission from 2 to 1 resulting in a neck snap. Hooliganism.

So no need to worry about your T numbers! Leave your endocrinologist behind and enjoy the logic Mazda's engineers put into the smooth transmission which shifts well before the redline yet still puts a smile on your face as you haul a$$ and blow people's doors off.
 
  #45  
Old 01-27-2022, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Inexplicable_Bill
Oh Callisto, please forgive me as I genuflect to your (alleged) superior knowledge, sir.

Um, do you realize that oil gets past the oil scrapers and exploded combustion gasses get past the compression rings? All the time?
There are laws of physics involved that you're completely ignoring.

I tend not to go around making statements to people I don't know that I "know better", but in this instance, I'm fairly confident you've been one-upped. Good day sir.

OK so really you should consider that perhaps I may be knowledgeable as well experienced in engine building? Maybe? lol

Um I clearly said OIL CONTROL. BIG difference in what you assumed I said and most importantly DID NOT SAY!!!! And while I see you went on the internet for your response you forgot to look into the type of rings used, and the type of material in the block as well the type of finish hone used in the cylinders.

LOL Now go back and re-read my last post again and look up more internet response. LOL
 
  #46  
Old 01-27-2022, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Inexplicable_Bill
Sorry I got it wrong! With your foot mashed to the floor, the Turbo shifts at about 5,200 rpm, and redline is about 900 higher. .
DYNO testing is not done in the fashion of "mashing" the throttle to the floor. In fact, DYNO testing a Skyactiv model MAZDA is a bit challenging for the DYNO operator and also setting up the program and DELTAs for a run. I might also add that not one of my colleagues across the USA doing DYNO testing in their shops specifically having performed DYNO runs on MAZDA Skyactiv power train models has been able to duplicate what is "published" about their stock factory claimed output.
Having DYNO'd several model Skyactiv model Mazda's and now at an experienced plus 30 runs I can say there is a bit of fudging advertising regarding MAZDA. But then they also do not comply and participate with the standard industry Certification of engine power and torque to SAE J1349 or SAE J1995.

If you feel that what I posted is not accurate, please provide the following:
The name of the shop performing an independent DYNO run
The Delta used that day of the run and the follow up DELTA adjustments for additional runs same day
The DYNO result before any SAE smoothing
The DYNO result after SAE smoothing
Listing of any engine modification from a stock platform.
Fuel used, name of supplier and octane rating

The we can discuss somewhat on the same frame of reference information about DYNO results having to do with MAZDA Skyactiv engines!
 

Last edited by Callisto; 01-27-2022 at 10:23 AM.
  #47  
Old 01-28-2022, 09:49 AM
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OK. This is a little bit like the stand-off at the border of The Ukraine. Let's pull back forces, chew some tobacco and talk!

I am glad I talked you out of 900 rpm. In exchange I will leave off the T therapy for now. Best Wishes, RMV
 
  #48  
Old 01-28-2022, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by reubenvabner
OK. This is a little bit like the stand-off at the border of The Ukraine. Let's pull back forces, chew some tobacco and talk!

I am glad I talked you out of 900 rpm. In exchange I will leave off the T therapy for now. Best Wishes, RMV
Hey it all rolls off my shoulder. I am use to this on vehicle forums. The inherent problem is we don't always know who has the best and empirical information based on experience and an education and even certification and training on any topic matter. So we must assume to much about what is written on any given thread from members? It all comes down to what and who you want to trust as the best information posted.
I get a little mifit when I see someone trying to be "all that" and debate with me on a subject clearly, they lack real world knowledge and experience and find their response they want to support their opinions on the internet? LOL Naturally if I challenge or question them or even correct them on their information that is also when I get members that like to resort to name calling like KNOW-IT-ALL or worse. lol Its all funny to me.

Car Repair Advice Forum= at your own risk

How to Get Good Car Repair Advice

Below is an often-started thread on many forums I participate on and some newer (even older) members should consider reading it?
click here:
Car Repair Advice Forum= at your own risk - Mazda Forum - Mazda Enthusiast Forums
 

Last edited by Callisto; 01-28-2022 at 11:06 AM.
  #49  
Old 01-28-2022, 01:15 PM
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Callisto: Everyone comes to love you for your unmatched knowledge of everything to do with the automobile. Your remarkable step-by-step pictures, etc.
Sometimes it just takes a few back-and-forth's before people get to appreciate the curmudgeonly resource you are!

Now as for your Atavar/On-Line Persona, she seems to have had a very complex life who was tragically killed by the Goddess of the Hunt! She was quite the
beautiful harlot!!

Callisto, in Greek mythology, a nymph, or else a daughter of either Lycaon of Arcadia or of Nycteus or Ceteus. Callisto was one of the goddess Artemis’ huntress companions and swore to remain unwed. But she was loved by Zeus and, in several variations of the legend, was turned into a she-bear either by Zeus (to conceal his deed from Hera) or by Artemis or Hera (who were enraged at her unchastity). Callisto was then killed during the chase by Artemis, who, owing to the machinations of the jealous Hera, mistook Callisto for a real bear. Zeus then gave Arcas, his child with Callisto, to the Titaness Maia to raise. He then placed Callisto among the stars as the constellationUrsa Major (Great Bear). In Ovid’sMetamorphoses, Book II, Arcas was transformed into the brilliant star Arcturus just as he was about to kill his mother during a hunt; he was the eponymous hero of Arcadia.
 
  #50  
Old 01-28-2022, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by reubenvabner
Callisto: Everyone comes to love you for your unmatched knowledge of everything to do with the automobile. Your remarkable step-by-step pictures, etc.
Sometimes it just takes a few back-and-forth's before people get to appreciate the curmudgeonly resource you are!

Now as for your Avatar/On-Line Persona,

.
Thank you for to somewhat complimentary words?
curmudgeonly....... thats funny
I am seldom mad or grouchy in fact the opposite, but I am sure my writing style may suggest otherwise to some.

Nice write up but the Callito in the picture is from my childhood toys referring to Major Matt Mason . Callisto was Major Matt Mason's friend from Jupiter. "Callisto's transparent skull reveals a highly developed humanoid brain endowed with superior mental powers."






 

Last edited by Callisto; 01-28-2022 at 01:57 PM.


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