I'm trying to figure out how to get this 500hp + Cosworth STi engine in my CX-5...

 

Supercharged Nitous fed with LPG augmentation 400+ whp 02 MINI



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For sure it's small, the engine only puts out 100hp/l WITH the turbo. Not eactly impressive compared to other makers with a 2.5T. The Hyundai/KIA/Genesis 2.5T puts out 281-300hp and GM's new 2.5T produces 328hp. Many other makers 2.0T motors make more than 250hp as well (Acura, BMW, MB, Alfa, etc) Mazda is way behind, but they never have been a high HP engine producer. Their 2.5T is nice motor though, great low end grunt. I really enjoy driving it.

 

read through this thread...
https://www.mazdaforum.com/forum/maz...55/#post231719

 

Yes see the thing I often post is the (see below) Without that certification an auto manufacture can post anything they want and do not have to state if it is WHP, Engine HP etc. So that said who really knows unless a model and engine is independently tested on a DYNO with prop set ups. And then that can vary depending on the location where the DYNO test was done.
Have done over a thousand over the years I can tell you I have had many disappoint people with the results from their rides. That is why any time I post power number I only use *WHP ( Wheel ***** Power).Although in my history I have never posted the actual power out puts of any my engines but never less then their output.BHP (brake horsepower): Measures engine output at the flywheel when the engine is not installed in the vehicle.
*WHP (wheel horsepower): Measures power delivered to the wheels on a chassis dyno.
HP (horsepower): A calculated figure that for external forces like friction and wear
RWHP (Real World Horsepower) measure in the real world using an accelerometer, most accurate for the operating environment)



About SAE J1349® Certified Power - Standards Development - Standards - SAE International

 

As far as I know, all specs given by maufacturers are at the crank. They never give WHP as it would of course be lower.

 

Unless you have an in at the powertrain development division at Mazda there is no publication about what Mazda uses or for that matter this is also true with many other platforms. They just don't publish that information/
So, your thoughts are not exactly supported? The problem with that is did they do it with or without the parasitic drag accessories? With or without the transmission? And which transmission was used?
However, for the most part for decades it was a simple forgone conclusion that they did it without. Thats why there was so many Muscle cars that never lived up to their claims when a Chassis Dyno was performed. But the MYTH started, and we hear it even today... the most common HP phrases. I got a 400,450 500 etc. Horsepower engine. The more common among owners is that magical 500 HP number. And always rounded up to the nearest hundredth? LOL
Never real number like 341 or 259 etc. LOL
This also bring another example of why 0-60 and 1/4 times are not accurate. How many post the tested weight of the vehicle? I do not think many used fat Albert as the drive more like a Jokey size individual. LOL
A summers day at a NHRA nationals' event can Shead lots of light on what really goes on in the real world and then once experienced that you tend to be more lifting an eyebrow of questions to what things are advertised?
When I raced professionally for over 40 years I would know the dry and wet weight of my cars. I would also weigh the fuel per gallon and also what my fully dressed in everything helmet gloves etc. was. I knew every event to the lb how much the car fuel and me was.

Even My 2019 Mazda 3 if you go look, I had an official certified State Of California weights and measures station, weigh my Mazda with a full tank of measure fuel (+/- 1 gallon) And it was close to Mazda specification.... but only close. So, I have to wonder how did Mazda come up with their measurements? LOL
And I have done several DYNO tests from completely stock to where it is at now and also wonder how the hell Mazda claimed the power rating. LOL

 

What was your completely stock engines DYNO hp vs the 186hp claimed by Mazda? One would have to assume the manufacturers are removing as much as possible from the motor before the dyno is done. They want the highest number possible to publish. I remember back in 2002 when Mazda released the Miata NB 2.5 with a new VVT version of the 1.8l motor. It was a big deal as the previous 1.8l had 140hp (I had a 2000 Miata at that time) and the new 2002 motor was to have 155hp. When it actually released, it was found the motor really only produced 142hp so for all the work Mazda did adding variable valve timing, they only gained 2 hp. Buyers were not happy and Mazda compensated in some way (I can't remember if they offered to buy the cars back, or what). Ford at that time also had an issue with the Mustang SVT Cobra which did not put out the advertised numbers.

It's really silly there isn't a standard. I mean what if a washing macicine manufacturer could say their washer was 6ft3 capacity, but this included the space taken up by the door of the machine so ity was really 5ft3? There should be a standard (as you have listed many times) which ALL manufacturers follow so that we know a BMW with 250hp is the same as a Mazda with 250hp.

 

The standard is there but it is only voluntary. I seriously doubt based on how long that question has been ask that it will ever be required. That questioned has been debated in magazines and forums for decades.
There was even the question of false advertising but was dismissed because another MTYH is that NO most auto manufactures do not use data collected from testing engines on a Engine or chassis Dyno. That is only done during the engineering and development stages. The numbers you see on auto manufactured is the theorized power based on formulas specific for the particular engine. I used those same formulas in the 80-90s when building performance engine, performance camshafts specifications and then after the project was completed, I did either both engine dyno testing and chassis testing depending on the customers end use. The results varied because partly the uncontrollable conditions of testing, even how matriculate I was to set the Delts and repeat the deltas for subsequent testing comparisons, but there is still GOD effect. Uncontrollable or unforeseen influences.

My MINI MCS after the engine was broken in completely stock BMWMINI claimed 165hp. They edit state how that was achieved. I did a Chassis Dyno test it in CA, and NEV at a couple shows in CA as well in CA in 2 different shops with chassis Dyno's owned by friends.
The best was 147 whp? So where was the other 18 HP? I removed the accessory belts, and it gained a questionable 2 HP gain. Then I realized... so I ask the Club for a volunteer. A N/A MINI same year. BMWMINI claimed 115HP.The best run was 105whp. So, there it was. the answer.... They used a bare engine and speculated the power to advertise on the MCS models. The Supercharger had so much parasitic drag under boost then it brought the total power numbers down. Not the best way to advertise the Pride of the top-of-the-line Model from BMW/MINI. Using this as example it is strong possibility that Mazda does the same estimation based on formulas from the original engineered engine.

Not to pop your bubble but Miata's were big around Laguna Saca AKA Mazda Raceway and I DYNO'd at least 50 or more for MAZDA days at the track as well several local Miat clubs up and down CA., WA., and NEV.. Sure it was on a portable DYNO but none lived up to the claim power Mazda listed even if I always made the owner feel good and told them on a portable DYNO you have to add 25-35 HP rolmao.



If you look at this website ...
About SAE J1349® Certified Power - Standards Development - Standards - SAE International

About SAE J1349® Certified Power
SAE Engine Rating Standard Prevents Numbers Fudging

The new voluntary SAE power and torque certification procedure ensures fair, accurate ratings for horsepower and torque



I have 2 long time very good friends that work each work for 2 different auto manufacturing companies, (don't ask which ones) and both are head of engineering and development division for engines and transmission. I get a lot of no tell public information.. LOL

 

Not "popping any bubbles". What you said about your Mini MCS makes sense when you look at it the way I suggested (take the 147 you got and multiply by 1.1 from the chart below and you get 162hp - only down 3hp from the claim which is within reason, some will be higher and some lower). This was confirmed with the 105hp whp figure for the N/A Mini which calculates to 115 with the 1.1 factor. No manufacturer is going to list WHP as it will always be lower (as we just showed). They are giving numbers at the crank as higher is always better in advertising.

You didn't answer me about your Mazda 3. Did you run a baseline dyno? What was the WHP you got if you did? As far as I know, consumers don't have the ability to obtain a crank dyno, its always WHP.

To convert wheel horsepower (WHP) to crank horsepower (CHP), multiply by the following factor based on drivetrain:

Formula

• Front wheel drive: WHP x 1.1 = CHP
• Rear wheel drive: WHP x 1.15 = CHP
• All-wheel drive: WHP x 1.2 = CHP