Man the 6 loves to eat batteries.....
#11
01-03-2012, 05:18 PM
Found it------: http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/45...ation.html?s=p
Last edited by UseYourNoggin; 01-03-2012 at 05:54 PM.
#12
01-03-2012, 10:21 PM
No, there is no airflow to the battery.
Putting an insulation below and around the battery will not accomplish anything; the battery will still be entirely surrounded by heat. And with no fresh supply of cold air being exchanged, the air within your insulation 'box' will just warm up due to the ambient air temperature of the engine compartment. Also, if your insulation method worked, the battery would stay COLDER in winter because the eventual heat from engine operation wouldn't be able to reach the battery.
What I've considered doing is removing the plastic 'stand' the battery sits on- make a new one from aluminum- sit it further down into and near the steering rack- and make the bottom of the tray vented and/or louvered to take advantage of airflow moving under the car.
As for the link- I highly doubt their claim of "...Excellent thermal insulation increases the effective of energy..." (whatever the hxll that is supposed to mean in English). The material either has an R-value rating or it doesn't; it's a standard measure of insulating capacity. Also, when you can see the red table cloth through the single layer, just how effective can it be? (Also, I wouldn't be quick to buy insulation from some Chinese company that can't even find someone who can use proper English grammar)
And like I said, that is an incorrect statement. When your battery is dead -or even weak- it's dead. It doesn't just keep going until colder weather. My first one died at Heartland Park in Topkea, KS, on a typical mid-90's Labor Day weekend. It's replacement died 3 days out of the the warranty period 3 years later on a mid-80's summer weekend. The extra stress from ambient air temps, accessory load from running the A/C, etc., can all place the battery under just as much load as-in winter. Available cranking amps is affected by heat, not just cold. The major difference is that a cold engine is harder to turn over than a warm engine, which is why a battery displays the CCA threshold.
Putting an insulation below and around the battery will not accomplish anything; the battery will still be entirely surrounded by heat. And with no fresh supply of cold air being exchanged, the air within your insulation 'box' will just warm up due to the ambient air temperature of the engine compartment. Also, if your insulation method worked, the battery would stay COLDER in winter because the eventual heat from engine operation wouldn't be able to reach the battery.
What I've considered doing is removing the plastic 'stand' the battery sits on- make a new one from aluminum- sit it further down into and near the steering rack- and make the bottom of the tray vented and/or louvered to take advantage of airflow moving under the car.
As for the link- I highly doubt their claim of "...Excellent thermal insulation increases the effective of energy..." (whatever the hxll that is supposed to mean in English). The material either has an R-value rating or it doesn't; it's a standard measure of insulating capacity. Also, when you can see the red table cloth through the single layer, just how effective can it be? (Also, I wouldn't be quick to buy insulation from some Chinese company that can't even find someone who can use proper English grammar)
And like I said, that is an incorrect statement. When your battery is dead -or even weak- it's dead. It doesn't just keep going until colder weather. My first one died at Heartland Park in Topkea, KS, on a typical mid-90's Labor Day weekend. It's replacement died 3 days out of the the warranty period 3 years later on a mid-80's summer weekend. The extra stress from ambient air temps, accessory load from running the A/C, etc., can all place the battery under just as much load as-in winter. Available cranking amps is affected by heat, not just cold. The major difference is that a cold engine is harder to turn over than a warm engine, which is why a battery displays the CCA threshold.
Last edited by karlt10; 01-03-2012 at 10:45 PM.
#13
01-04-2012, 08:41 AM
No, there is no airflow to the battery.
Actually, from the rad it gets a good shot of hot air, hot air rises and gets pushed back there from the rad fan.
Putting an insulation below and around the battery will not accomplish anything; the battery will still be entirely surrounded by heat. And with no fresh supply of cold air being exchanged, the air within your insulation 'box' will just warm up due to the ambient air temperature of the engine compartment. Also, if your insulation method worked, the battery would stay COLDER in winter because the eventual heat from engine operation wouldn't be able to reach the battery.
There is no insulation box, I glue the insulation to the Battery.
Insulation will keep extreme hot and cold off of battery. Top will be exposed only. Sides totally covered in insulation all the way around.
bottom-rubber piece.
As for the link- I highly doubt their claim of "...Excellent thermal insulation increases the effective of energy..." (whatever the hxll that is supposed to mean in English). The material either has an R-value rating or it doesn't; it's a standard measure of insulating capacity. Also, when you can see the red table cloth through the single layer, just how effective can it be? (Also, I wouldn't be quick to buy insulation from some Chinese company that can't even find someone who can use proper English grammar)
Same basic stuff is sold somewhere else. I linked that so you could see what it looks like (only pic i could find). It is still insulation. The stuff I get may or may not come from that company. Any insulation is better than none. It will keep extreme heat off of battery and extreme cold. I have used this stuff on other applications. It is more rugged and stiff compared to pink insualtion--It will not fall apart---hard to tear apart. No littles bits flaking off--especially if you paint it with spray paint. I have painted it before and the spray paint does not go past 1/2 depth so something is preventing it from going all the way thru, so it is useful. I can't see using any other insulation. Styrofoam would not seal good around corners or around the hold down screw. I am not looking for over complicated box making but simple easy solutions like adding an extra layer to the battery itself (like a second skin).
And like I said, that is an incorrect statement. When your battery is dead -or even weak- it's dead. It doesn't just keep going until colder weather. My first one died at Heartland Park in Topkea, KS, on a typical mid-90's Labor Day weekend. It's replacement died 3 days out of the the warranty period 3 years later on a mid-80's summer weekend. The extra stress from ambient air temps, accessory load from running the A/C, etc., can all place the battery under just as much load as-in winter. Available cranking amps is affected by heat, not just cold. The major difference is that a cold engine is harder to turn over than a warm engine, which is why a battery displays the CCA threshold.
Actually, from the rad it gets a good shot of hot air, hot air rises and gets pushed back there from the rad fan.
Putting an insulation below and around the battery will not accomplish anything; the battery will still be entirely surrounded by heat. And with no fresh supply of cold air being exchanged, the air within your insulation 'box' will just warm up due to the ambient air temperature of the engine compartment. Also, if your insulation method worked, the battery would stay COLDER in winter because the eventual heat from engine operation wouldn't be able to reach the battery.
There is no insulation box, I glue the insulation to the Battery.
Insulation will keep extreme hot and cold off of battery. Top will be exposed only. Sides totally covered in insulation all the way around.
bottom-rubber piece.
As for the link- I highly doubt their claim of "...Excellent thermal insulation increases the effective of energy..." (whatever the hxll that is supposed to mean in English). The material either has an R-value rating or it doesn't; it's a standard measure of insulating capacity. Also, when you can see the red table cloth through the single layer, just how effective can it be? (Also, I wouldn't be quick to buy insulation from some Chinese company that can't even find someone who can use proper English grammar)
Same basic stuff is sold somewhere else. I linked that so you could see what it looks like (only pic i could find). It is still insulation. The stuff I get may or may not come from that company. Any insulation is better than none. It will keep extreme heat off of battery and extreme cold. I have used this stuff on other applications. It is more rugged and stiff compared to pink insualtion--It will not fall apart---hard to tear apart. No littles bits flaking off--especially if you paint it with spray paint. I have painted it before and the spray paint does not go past 1/2 depth so something is preventing it from going all the way thru, so it is useful. I can't see using any other insulation. Styrofoam would not seal good around corners or around the hold down screw. I am not looking for over complicated box making but simple easy solutions like adding an extra layer to the battery itself (like a second skin).
And like I said, that is an incorrect statement. When your battery is dead -or even weak- it's dead. It doesn't just keep going until colder weather. My first one died at Heartland Park in Topkea, KS, on a typical mid-90's Labor Day weekend. It's replacement died 3 days out of the the warranty period 3 years later on a mid-80's summer weekend. The extra stress from ambient air temps, accessory load from running the A/C, etc., can all place the battery under just as much load as-in winter. Available cranking amps is affected by heat, not just cold. The major difference is that a cold engine is harder to turn over than a warm engine, which is why a battery displays the CCA threshold.
ALL MY RESPONSES ABOVE IN BLUE
UPDATE: Just got back from garage. My old battery tested OK. I do have a second battery @ back for my aftermarket sub. It's a Kinetic KHC800 (good for 800 watts, my amp is 550 watts). bought it March 23, 2010. It's a power cell requiring special intelligent charging equipment not standard charger. It's 950 amps and 750 cranking amps (not cold?!). I'll have to bring in that battery to the sound shop and hook it up to his charger. The guy from sound shop said it needs to be charged between 13.2 & 13.4 volts--------so what happens with car charging it!
Also mechanic noticed a constant discharge from battery of 120 milliamps----not enough to discharge battery in 3 days (see next post as i expand on this). This was one of the reasons why I also bought the second battery. I don't know if it's because of the security light flashing on the dash or not (Mazda stock security whatever it is-----it is a red car flashing on dash after car is off). Pain in tha *** process.
The mechanic agreed with me about wrapping the battery in insulation. A lot of the newer cars are coming wrapped.
Last edited by UseYourNoggin; 01-05-2012 at 11:40 AM.
#14
01-05-2012, 08:33 AM
I am seriously cosidering buying a solar panel charger that fits on dash/windshield that plugs in to your cigarette lighter to help charge the battery, especially since I don't use the car everyday. Off to the sound shop this morning with Kinetic battery.
One other thing, I was unloading, re-arranging some stuff in the car for 10 minutes with interior LED lights on in between the 3 days. Maybe I should have started the car-----why, with 2 batteries!
Solar Panel quote i found: I use this charger on my 12 year-old VW that has developed a slow drain on the battery. The battery would die if I didn't run the car every day. The charger works, even in the winter in Maine.
UPDATE #1: When opening car doors, more than just lights come on------your computer also comes on. I guess I should have started car and let run for 5 minutes after re-arranging stuff in car. Dropped off battery----hopefully know tomorrow. If battery is no good, i will not replace it. The battery was froze according to my original mechanic. Wrapping them with insulation should help this.
Looked at Solar Panels. A 1.8 watt one puts out 125 ma/hr (on sale today $15), a 1 watt puts out 60-80 ma/hr. Although they can overcharge your battery, however with my parasitic draw of 120 ma this will never happen. With the Solar panel it will keep it even during the day and then the battery will only discharge at night.
I will buy insulation and solar panel this afternoon.
UPDATE#2: Even after freezing the batteries can come back to life. I have my original main battery back in car after charging overnight in shop. Hopefully other one will come back to life. The one guy said if you have a Cadillac and go away on 2 week vacation, your battery will be dead----parasitic draw again due to many computers.
One other thing, I was unloading, re-arranging some stuff in the car for 10 minutes with interior LED lights on in between the 3 days. Maybe I should have started the car-----why, with 2 batteries!
Solar Panel quote i found: I use this charger on my 12 year-old VW that has developed a slow drain on the battery. The battery would die if I didn't run the car every day. The charger works, even in the winter in Maine.
UPDATE #1: When opening car doors, more than just lights come on------your computer also comes on. I guess I should have started car and let run for 5 minutes after re-arranging stuff in car. Dropped off battery----hopefully know tomorrow. If battery is no good, i will not replace it. The battery was froze according to my original mechanic. Wrapping them with insulation should help this.
Looked at Solar Panels. A 1.8 watt one puts out 125 ma/hr (on sale today $15), a 1 watt puts out 60-80 ma/hr. Although they can overcharge your battery, however with my parasitic draw of 120 ma this will never happen. With the Solar panel it will keep it even during the day and then the battery will only discharge at night.
I will buy insulation and solar panel this afternoon.
UPDATE#2: Even after freezing the batteries can come back to life. I have my original main battery back in car after charging overnight in shop. Hopefully other one will come back to life. The one guy said if you have a Cadillac and go away on 2 week vacation, your battery will be dead----parasitic draw again due to many computers.
Last edited by UseYourNoggin; 01-05-2012 at 11:39 AM. Reason: UPDATE#1 12:05pm, UPDATE#2 12;40pm
#15
01-05-2012, 11:39 AM
I am now confused as to who actually has the problem. It started with karlt.
Anyway, if you have a high powered amp and a few other accessories you simply drain the battery faster than the alternator can charge it. With electricity you can use the water model: the faucet is the alternator, the bath tub is the battery and the drain holes are the electrical devises running on the system. There is only so much water coming in....
Anyway, if you have a high powered amp and a few other accessories you simply drain the battery faster than the alternator can charge it. With electricity you can use the water model: the faucet is the alternator, the bath tub is the battery and the drain holes are the electrical devises running on the system. There is only so much water coming in....
#16
01-05-2012, 11:52 AM
I am now confused as to who actually has the problem. It started with karlt.
Anyway, if you have a high powered amp and a few other accessories you simply drain the battery faster than the alternator can charge it. With electricity you can use the water model: the faucet is the alternator, the bath tub is the battery and the drain holes are the electrical devises running on the system. There is only so much water coming in....
Anyway, if you have a high powered amp and a few other accessories you simply drain the battery faster than the alternator can charge it. With electricity you can use the water model: the faucet is the alternator, the bath tub is the battery and the drain holes are the electrical devises running on the system. There is only so much water coming in....
I didn't even have the stereo on coming home from New Years party, so this wasn't a factor at time of failure but may have contributed to it over long run along with heat. I have excellent grounds added. This is also why I don't have a large amp for subwoofer (fear of battery failure). Quite often before i get out of car i turn stereo down coming down the street and rev it up before exiting for that last charge surge.
-23 was the factor freezing batteries in my situation, i believe. Warm them up, recharge, and presto back to life. Time to insulate them and compensate for parasitic draw with solar panel.
After I jump started the battery first time, the voltage came right up.
Last edited by UseYourNoggin; 01-05-2012 at 06:49 PM.
#17
01-05-2012, 02:43 PM
Found some better insulation today (I guess Karl was on my mind). This insulation requires no gluing or painting. It is 1.5" thick with an aluminum backing good for up to 250 degrees (see pic). The alum will be on outside joined together with special alum foil tape---should be tight against battery. $6 insulation, $6 alum foil tape.
Rubber rigged black floor will go on bottom of battery (in pic).
Solar panel 1.8 watt. 125 ma/hr. 5 inches X 13.75 inches. It will be mounted on top of dash in front of steering wheel area on tilted area with velcro. Wired direct to a constant live fuse in panel. It does come with a cigarette lighter adapter or alligator clips. We will not use either but special spade connectors that wrap around a fuse hopefully. Our cigarette lighter is not live, it only works with key on.
Rubber rigged black floor will go on bottom of battery (in pic).
Solar panel 1.8 watt. 125 ma/hr. 5 inches X 13.75 inches. It will be mounted on top of dash in front of steering wheel area on tilted area with velcro. Wired direct to a constant live fuse in panel. It does come with a cigarette lighter adapter or alligator clips. We will not use either but special spade connectors that wrap around a fuse hopefully. Our cigarette lighter is not live, it only works with key on.
#18
01-06-2012, 03:48 PM
Installed Battery insulation
Installed Battery insulation today. While I had battery out, I ran a pair of wires through the firewall for the solar panel (wires sitting on top of battery). Pics attached. There was 2 SMALL AIR HOLES at bottom of battery tray. I put a piece of black rubber on bottom of battery tray to block all holes (keep from hot air getting in).
Kinetic second battery still charging at shop, 90 % (so far so good). I'll wait til it's 100%. The guy said those Kinetic batteries can go down to almost nothing and come back to 100% with proper charge (up to 72 hrs). When i get that one back it will be insulated as well.
Figured out where solar panel will go. I originally wanted it on top of dash in front of steering wheel but you could see the relection in windshield---FAIL. I have decided to attach it to the passenger side visor. With the blue tint on top of windshield I had to glue it to visor with only 2" overlap so solar panel would come down below blue tint. I managed to get the visor off----it has a lighted mirror. The plug right there was a pain in the *** to remove as I had to remove all weatherstrip around plug to push screwdriver in slot to release plug. The vanity is live to the battery. I may hook wires up to it, although i have wires already thru firewall. This will get decided Tuesday. Gluing more on backside tomorrow (brought visor inside). Slow process but making progress. Cleaned cabin air filter also (behind glove box).
Kinetic second battery still charging at shop, 90 % (so far so good). I'll wait til it's 100%. The guy said those Kinetic batteries can go down to almost nothing and come back to 100% with proper charge (up to 72 hrs). When i get that one back it will be insulated as well.
Figured out where solar panel will go. I originally wanted it on top of dash in front of steering wheel but you could see the relection in windshield---FAIL. I have decided to attach it to the passenger side visor. With the blue tint on top of windshield I had to glue it to visor with only 2" overlap so solar panel would come down below blue tint. I managed to get the visor off----it has a lighted mirror. The plug right there was a pain in the *** to remove as I had to remove all weatherstrip around plug to push screwdriver in slot to release plug. The vanity is live to the battery. I may hook wires up to it, although i have wires already thru firewall. This will get decided Tuesday. Gluing more on backside tomorrow (brought visor inside). Slow process but making progress. Cleaned cabin air filter also (behind glove box).
Last edited by UseYourNoggin; 11-24-2012 at 04:05 PM.
#19
01-06-2012, 10:53 PM
UseYourNoggin - so you think wrapping that 'stuff' around your battery, but not the top of the battery is going to insulate it? Uh, ok... You don't even begin to understand insulation, thermal transfer, thermal isolation, etc.
tanprotege, take one look at UseYourNoggin's battery/under hood/mess and decide if it's really someone you want to take car advice from. If you do, I'd do so with a very large grain of salt and double-check ANYTHING he says. The car you save will be your own.
tanprotege, take one look at UseYourNoggin's battery/under hood/mess and decide if it's really someone you want to take car advice from. If you do, I'd do so with a very large grain of salt and double-check ANYTHING he says. The car you save will be your own.
#20
01-07-2012, 08:21 AM
UseYourNoggin - so you think wrapping that 'stuff' around your battery, but not the top of the battery is going to insulate it? Uh, ok... You don't even begin to understand insulation, thermal transfer, thermal isolation, etc.
tanprotege, take one look at UseYourNoggin's battery/under hood/mess and decide if it's really someone you want to take car advice from. If you do, I'd do so with a very large grain of salt and double-check ANYTHING he says. The car you save will be your own.
tanprotege, take one look at UseYourNoggin's battery/under hood/mess and decide if it's really someone you want to take car advice from. If you do, I'd do so with a very large grain of salt and double-check ANYTHING he says. The car you save will be your own.
Insulating the top is just stupidity (the battery has to breathe), new cars are coming wrapped the same way. As a matter of fact, if you install a battery box it must be ventilated to the outside air.
What's wrong with my "under hood mess". I have extra grounds. I have an extra battery at the back which requires a fuse/breaker in between battery at front and also at the back to help prevent a fire in case I get T-Boned (in case wire is broken 1/2 way back the fuse/breaker will trip).
You obviously know nothing about adding a second battery.
And i suppose when you add an extra amp at the back you don't have to add another ground at the front either because the stock ground is so big (sarcasm)!
UPDATE: My second battery (Kinetic) is now ready for p/u. It has recharged to 100% with no dead cells or issues. The sound shop has a special intelligent charger which not only charges it but gives info about the battery. It will also be wrapped the same way.
Last edited by UseYourNoggin; 01-18-2012 at 07:53 PM.