Mazda CX-5 The CX-5 CUV debuts Mazda's SKYACTIV® TECHNOLOGY and is unique for its impressive fuel economy, responsive handling and bold style

Transmission hesitation when engine cold

Old May 5, 2025 | 03:00 PM
  #11  
Callisto's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 10,665
Likes: 233
From: Northern California
Default

Originally Posted by Lobstah
Mazda says lifetime transmission fluid (lifetime translates to 100K).
Despite what Mazda says, many here on the website recommend a fluid/filter change every 40K.
Fluid testing can show contaminants, but *do they actually impact the lifetime of the transmission?
.
You can read mine as well contact Black Stone and they will more than happy to send you many automatic transmissions oil analysis performed over the years naturally with the owner personal information redacted out.
There is also another oil sample analysis company you can contact as well in the UK

*The point to answer your question is let's think about those three metals aluminum, iron and copper floating around and not filtered out by the transmission filter.



These three are from ALL automatic transmission during their break in period. So when you don't do a logical oil change you drain them from the transmission much like you all do for the engine after that break in period then they remain for the most part float in fluid suspension in the oil constantly circulating throughout the transmission. The oil analysis above was a pan drop, and filter change BTW. That was after I did a complete fluid change using our shop Transmision service machine at just under 5K miles followed by another at 10 k but only pan fluid and then another pan drop fluid change and filter at 18K miles. Then at 23k miles I had thought I would have got a near perfect oil analysis but nope. LOL
 

Last edited by Callisto; May 5, 2025 at 03:13 PM.
Reply
Old May 6, 2025 | 07:50 AM
  #12  
Lobstah's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 1,867
Likes: 30
From: Maine
Default

Yes, you have reports of contaminants in the tested fluid, and I reiterated most members here change their fluid and filter.
Some things to keep in mind, as a former lab tech, and as your report says it is the ratio of the particles not the particles present.
Though I'm not certain what the "Universal Averages" actually refers too or what they used for references to base them on.
I would also point out the size of the contaminants is more often an issue than the actual "ratio" amount of them for many lab studies.
It may fall within the acceptable test ratio but if it is one particle the size of a BB instead of millions of microscopic ones it makes a huge difference.
As I'm sure you are aware, most transmission fluid and oil testing companies, including Blackstone, do not measure the particle sizes.
All that said we don't really disagree. Getting transmission fluid changed is a good maintenance practice.
However, subject is the Mazda CX-5 Skyactiv transmission.
My statement:
Truthfully there has never been any definitive testing done on how long these transmissions will actually last without doing any service on them at all.

There have been numerous published studies done on various other transmissions, but I could not find a single longevity study, or any study for that matter, that pertains to the Skyactiv. Granted I admit I could have overlooked one as I'm only a magical wizard in my own mind
Without that we are "assuming" the Skyactiv would benefit from it, but we have no definitive knowledge if it will or will not impact the life of it.
That was all I was pointing out; if there are those studies out there specifically on the Skyactiv transmission, please point me to them.
I'm always up for the reading of scientific studies papers ...yes, my wife says I'm weird and geeky as well.




 

Last edited by Lobstah; May 6, 2025 at 07:53 AM.
Reply
Old May 6, 2025 | 08:43 AM
  #13  
Callisto's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 10,665
Likes: 233
From: Northern California
Default

There is not any direct and control testing specific to Mazda Skyactiv transmission but then basically the small differences in the Mazda transmission does not set them completely different from say a TurboHydo 350 or even a Poerglide.. . I guess if owners don't choose to do frequent oil and filter services it just more business for service shops. I did point out that there is a difference service guide from auto manufactures regarding fleet vehicle's.
The only other point is generally after a few oil changes as noted the metals reduce their presents considerably. I also recommend that if you look into problematic or failed of most all automatic transmissions aside from varnish and sludge build up they all have a high presents of those metal particles present in the oil.
The size or really the % really does not matter as much as what the meatal particles do in an operating environment that has many components that are in close contact (small tolerances) .

In this case about not doing the service I guess we can sum it up to call it a WARANING .
Using the search feature of this forum can find many transmission issues that in the end can be directly related to lack of or not servicing them!


Oh I am pretty sure that if I collected my transmission oil that looks almost new right out of the pan at a clocked 3000 miles (or possibly 5000 miles) and offered it to anyone, I seriously doubt that anyone would use it in their transmission.
 

Last edited by Callisto; May 6, 2025 at 08:47 AM.
Reply
Old May 8, 2025 | 01:14 PM
  #14  
Tom&Max's Avatar
Member
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 45
Likes: 1
From: Knoxville, TN
Default

While you guys are talking transmissions and service intervals I became curious about the 3x drain and fill procedure that is talked about so much. I made up some data and created a little spreadsheet to compare the 3x procedure done at 60K miles to a 1x drain and fill every 20K miles. Both methods will consume the same number of quarts at 60K and 120K miles, but the calculated levels of contamination tell and interesting story. I can bore you guys with all of my assumptions and even post my spreadsheet but allow me to post the graph created with this data. I'm sure many of you will blast away at me for not considering this or that, and I'm sure I'm guilty, but at least for my mind it is a start. Tom

 
Reply
Old May 8, 2025 | 05:39 PM
  #15  
Lobstah's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 1,867
Likes: 30
From: Maine
Default

Both a fluid change and a flush have their pros and cons.
I've not seen any studies that show which one reduces the total amount of contaminants but that doesn't mean they aren't out there.
Over the years I did or have done all of the ones you mentioned.
I honestly never noticed any shifting difference in any of them except the 3x flush in Jeep Cherokee.
It was like having a new transmission installed, and yes, I've had that done on several vehicles as well.
I had three transmissions replaced in my 1967 Pontiac LeMans (I had more money in transmission than I paid for the car).
2 before my GM service manager/mechanic uncle, informed the engine was not the badged 326 which required a 2-speed auto but a high output 400 4bbl that required the 3-speed.
Once I got the 3-speed in and the engine tuned to the proper specs the transmission worked as it should.




 
Reply
Old May 9, 2025 | 12:24 AM
  #16  
Callisto's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 10,665
Likes: 233
From: Northern California
Default

There are no cons to a complete transmission fluid replacement as long as the cut h friction material has not been wiped off off of the metal part of the disc and that a professional transmission service machine is used.

It’s really not the best to compare to much of 1950- late 1990s and even early 2000 automatic transmissions regarding some aspect of service .

Look its your vehicle you can choose to do whatever you want , and if you must wait for studies about transmission service you may need to wait a few more years. There is no real curiosity or anyone or company that wants to spend the resources or money to do it. However this is where most working as mechanics in independent and especially transmission service shop know why you don’t adhere to an automatic transmission mission lifetime no service from the auto manufacturer. And service a transmission more often then ever stipulated in any service guide or manual.

And I stand by my experience when I say the dilution system of changing the fluid is doing 1/2 the job and talking yourself that you are doing a good service.
Those that state that I challenge you to disassemble a transmission that was serviced like that and post up what you find

Then while that transmission is apart cut the torque converter in half and post what you find


 
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
hayk_yer
Mazda6
2
Aug 18, 2011 02:07 PM
LPG
Mazda3
17
Dec 9, 2008 05:28 PM
bobbyt46
Mazda MPV
4
Jul 7, 2007 08:58 AM
retronintendo
General Tech
3
Jul 9, 2005 10:58 PM


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:42 PM.