Hi again. I have a quick hypothetical question about this situation I want to bounce off you before I take the car in.

I am wondering what to do if the mechanic comes back and says that the problems are originating from somewhere else than the clutch assembly. Like the transmission. And he says that that is not covered under the warranty, and that I would have to pay to get that fixed.

My first response to this type of situation is to tell him that the problems with the noise and the vibrations were not there before he installed the new clutch. However, I wonder how many "cards to play" if this happens. Show him the estimate from the other place? Tell him that is not going to happen, and I am taking it somewhere else and then play the small claims court card?

I hope it does not come to this, but I just want to be prepared if he comes back and says the problem is not with his parts and labor after he pulls the transmission again.

Thanks for any thoughts on this.

 

First response is good, but you also have another card to play: When you got the car back, the transmission was leaking because they didn't spot the bad seals. Your trans may have been running low on fluid which depending how much, can cause internal damage.
Also, how would they explain the broken thermostat housing and subsequent coolant leak that they also couldn't find, but likely caused in the process of changing the clutch? It might have been peripheral damage, but they still caused it. They should be responsible, and it sounds like they are giving you every excuse in the book why they're not.

 

jmarcin: I took out some valuable time this weekend to read your entire original post!

Virgin1: I took out some valuable time and read your entire response as well!

I wonder if the header should have been: "How should a mechanic talk customers without making them angry?"

Things are so sour already that I would be worried to let them open the hood one more time. I would play the small courts card asap just so I could get the car fixed by a competent shop and hope for success in the court.
That said: Jen, make yourself familiar with the laws that govern small claims court. I believe there is usually no lawyer representing either side and there are rules in place that facilitate arguments on either side. For example you don't need to be an automotive expert to talk about the things that happened.
But there are differences from state to state and I am not an expert on this in my state. Watching a few episodes of "Judge Judy" is not much of a qualification. However if gives me a sense of how these proceedings go. I am sure you kept all your receipts and estimates. They are trump.

Both, the shaft seal and the thermostat housing may have been coincidental situations. I believe the thermostat housing is made of resin and prone to cracking. Of course if the leak looks different than this common failure mode then the mechanic's error is likely. That would be collateral damage indeed.

Virgin1: you are absolutely correct with your opinion on Firestone etc. I once used a Firestone because I was away from home when a water pump made noises.

 

I took my wife's car to a Firestone that was convenient to my work for state inspection once. I also asked them to look over and recharge the A/C system. The estimate was $1135 for a '95 Saturn that was worth about $600 (Est KBB value at the time.)
I did the job myself for under $200 in parts. I wasn't that familiar with the system or the way it was in the car and literally did it in our driveway. It took me under 3 hours. If it took me 3 hours, I figure book time would've been between 1-1/2 and 2 hrs. Where was the other $700 going?
While I was there, I overheard them sell a new battery to a woman, but their reasoning for why didn't make any sense at all. She didn't know any better and bought the battery... for $135.
There was another incident involving a woman customer while I was there, but I can't remember the details. I knew right then and there I would NEVER go back again.
Also, a friend of mine used to work for one of those national chain places. Between what I saw and heard myself while I visited him a few times, and the stories he told me when he was off the clock.... BRRRR!! It boggles the mind these places get away with some of this sh**.... stuff. Clearly there are many automotive customers that don't have a clue and make the mistake of trusting these so-called "professionals" with their wallets.
Give me an old time 'garage' where the guy that writes the ticket and makes the invoice is the same guy that works on my car.

 

Tan, The car has 141k miles on the clock. They were pulling the axles to get to the trans. If I were still doing this kind of work on a day-to-day basis, I would have suspected and included the possibility on the estimate in the first place!! With that many heat/cooling cycles on what is a consumable part(s?) Come on!! I hope they did both sides the second time around or she could have another leak develop in short order.
As for the thermo housing, plastic or not, she had the car back to them and they couldn't figure out where the leak was. They sent her on her way with a leaky cooling system. REALLY?? The other place figured it out on one visit and fixed it!!
Clearly, they do not double check their work or do a serious test drive/inspection when they are done. A sloppy, sloppy shop by the accounts made here.

 

Yeah, in my gut I really, really do not want to take my car back to them. However, I by giving them a second chance to fix it, it might bode better with small claims in Kentucky. This is based on what I am reading about our system here. Virgin1, I absolutely agree with what you are saying about the transmission fluid leak and the fact that it's a peripheral issue that may lead to larger issues. That is definitely a significant argument if they try to say its the transmission and that it was damaged when the clutch broke the first time. If that was the case, they would have been able to tell me that right away.

 

You are absolutely right, Virgin1! This is a sloppy shop doing shoddy work.

I was on vacation when the water pump started to make noises. I didn't want to risk getting stranded on a 2 day trip back home, with a family in the van having to show up for work on time. Even though I had a few days I had no chance to find a trustworthy independent shop.
Firestone in Kinston, NC replaced the pump with a re-manufactured one, did oil change and serpentine belt and charged like $600. They also suggested a rear brake job: $500!!!!!!????? I did that myself one year later at home.
I know where the money goes: to the corporate honchos and TV advertisement!

Like you, I am on a campaign on this forum to support the independent mom and pop shops. They do my oil changes at my favorite shop (when I don't do them myself) even though they take $10 more than the quick-lube next door.

 

I was forthright with the owner when I took the car in today. I told him that I needed it back by Thursday morning. The car has an appointment for Wednesday 8am. This afternoon he calls me and says that I am putting him in a hard position to get the car done by Thursday morning. That he has more than just my car to repair on Wednesday.

First of all, I made this appointment a week ago. He is the one who suggested Wednesday. He knows this job is 6-7 hours. That is HIS fault, not mine for overbooking his shop. I told him that I have to have the car back, it is non negotiable as I did not drive it for a week because I was not going to drive on a bad TOB. He said: "You have not been driving your car? You can drive on a bad TOB." This really irritated me because yes, you can drive on one, but then you might end up like me a month ago, dead in the water at a stop light. So no, I was not going to bargain with a clutch issue.

I was adamant that if this problem persists I am taking it somewhere else the next time and this will be the last time I take it to his shop. That might have been a little overkill, but it really shut him up. He said that parts do come in bad, that they get bad parts all the time, so that may be the issue. I know this statement is true. However, I find this statement HIGHLY amusing because the last conversation I had with him he said he "highly, highly doubts" that its a bad TOB because it was a brand new part and it was rare that you get a bad part.

He then said something that sent up a red flag: "It's been a bad couple of days at the shop." I do not know what this means, and I have no idea why he said this to me. Maybe he was trying to explain his rather rude behavior toward me this morning (another story that I will spare you.)

I just wanted to update you on this, but also writing this out helps me keep a record of situations if I need to refer back for anything, like small claims court.

 

Well y'know Jennifer, those of us that have been following along are curious as hell about the outcome of this. Any news yet?

 

You got it, Virgin1! I was just too tired yesterday to give you an update. Here you go:

Wednesday had a very positive outcome. I got the car back and it's driving perfectly. No chatter or vibration. They warrantied out all the parts and resurfaced the flywheel again. The owner said that the flywheel had a spot on it.

Here is what happened:

I think I might have lit a fire under him on Tuesday when I said that I wanted to see the parts when he pulled them out. I wanted to look at everything, including the flywheel. He did try and tell me that they needed to take the parts "immediately" to the clutch shop, so there would be a small window. He said it might be 1pm. I said that was perfect, and I would call him at noon to check.

Well, I got a call from the owner at about 8:30am on Wednesday saying that the got to the shop at 5:30am to take apart my car and that everything was out and they were inspecting the parts. Clearly, at that hour I could not get there to see the parts. Whether or not this action on his part was related to my asking to see the parts, I don't know, and don't want to dwell on. Even though they did not hear the sound on Tuesday, and still didn't see anything wrong with the TOB, they were going to warranty out all the parts and put in a new clutch. He did say that the flywheel had a "tiny spot" on it, though, and they were going to resurface it again. They said I should have my car by the end of the day.

The called at 1:30 and said my car was ready to go, and that there were no problems. I went to pick it up and the owner told me everything was working fine. He apparently did not drive it because he asked the mechanic (the same one who did the original clutch) to tell me how it was driving. The mechanic said it was smooth, no chatter, no vibration in the clutch anymore.

And he was right. No chatter, no vibration in that clutch pedal anymore. It drives and shifts just like it did before the clutch burned up. Of course this is very good news, but I will still be cognizant of any fluid leaks or returning sounds.

So, it was pretty anticlimactic, but that is a really good thing. It took me just being up front and standing my ground. Thank you guys so much for talking to me about this and talking me through my options. It was such a huge help. If you have any thoughts on this or advice on what else I should look for just that will tell me if things are still not right, I would be happy to hear them.

On a sidenote: Even though the owner swore he did not hear a high pitched squeal/chirp like I did, he DID say on Tuesday they did hear a sound that went away when they pushed in the clutch. The high pitched sound that I was hearing also went away when I pushed in the clutch. I told him this, so I don't know why he didn't put this together. Maybe to him the sound was not high-pitched? Maybe he translated my description differently? Maybe he didn't care? I have no idea. I thought it was odd. Anyway, I hope this over for good.