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Ford's Non-Denial Denial

  #1  
Old 10-18-2010, 09:07 PM
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Default Ford's Non-Denial Denial

Hmmm, seems the Motley Fool's comments vis--vis reports of Ford dumping all but 3% of it's Mazda stock weren't too complimentary to the Mazda folks. Strange; just a year ago they published a "Buck the Trend" article claiming that Ford was all hype and little substance. My how times change.

http://www.fool.com/investing/genera...al-denial.aspx
 
  #2  
Old 10-19-2010, 08:16 PM
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"Ford doesn't need Mazda anymore." Both companies are guilty of making crap, sad part is the way mazda is making these cars they are gonna need fords help again, ford on the other hand is trying new things and are showing great results, the fiesta (id never own one), the 2011 mustangs, all of there diesel trucks (built by international) and regular trucks are just great. For the past 3 years mazda has been relying on cheap tricks like new body styles, sleek interior and using there reputation for having "track ready" suspension on all of there cars (which they have been slacking on for the past 6 years), taking major short cuts in critical areas.

After reading that little article i agree with it 100%, Mazda needs to seriously step there game up, and Ford is top dog again.
 
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Old 10-25-2010, 03:28 PM
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I second that opinion Tracker... I mean WHAT was mazda thinking coming out with the newer models "sleek sytling" that looks like they're smiling eerily at you when you drive past one.. I'm not a fan and both my girlfriend and I own mazdas. Idk.. i'm hoping once Ford's out of the picture, Mazda will feel more free to step up their game without Ford trying to steal all of their ideas.
 
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Old 10-25-2010, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by PirateARRRX8 View Post
I second that opinion Tracker... I mean WHAT was mazda thinking coming out with the newer models "sleek sytling" that looks like they're smiling eerily at you when you drive past one.. I'm not a fan and both my girlfriend and I own mazdas. Idk.. i'm hoping once Ford's out of the picture, Mazda will feel more free to step up their game without Ford trying to steal all of their ideas.
Ford stealing Mazda's ideas? Too funny; if anything it may be the other way around. FWIW, I was doing a little patent research a couple of months back and I've got to tell you, for every recent patent Mazda has been granted, Ford has gotten an easy ten.
 
  #5  
Old 10-26-2010, 07:14 AM
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Very interesting, and the first I had heard of this new sell-off too.

As for the patents, look at the size of Ford, then look at Mazda. They may make similar products, but they are not similar in size at all.

And Pirate, Mazda has always designed their own products, even if taking some necessary cues from Ford. e.g. The "B" truck series, Tribute and less so, the CX-9. Sadly, that's where the current trend of smiley faces comes from.
IMO, they are trying to revolutionize instead of evolutionize the styling market. That may work in France, but not as well here or in most parts of the world.

In this mass market of super corporations and in a tough business like the auto industry, I believe a small company the size of Mazda needs to be more conservative and take baby steps instead of bigger ones or they will only find themselves in long-term trouble... Or worse, swallowed up by Nissan, Toyota or Hyundai!!

Perhaps they should consider an alliance w/Mitsubishi Motors? Two smaller companies working together?

Just a thought.
 
  #6  
Old 10-27-2010, 05:08 AM
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an alliance with mitsu? Rich i do believe that you have gone a little insane. the only thing that mitsu can claim as there is the evo, and you see how thats turning out, rest of the cars more or less have dodges hands in them (i dont know the current relationship with the companies). i do know that dodge keeps dodging (pun intended) the bullet on making sales, the challenger is one of the few vehicles keeping them above the "o man its getting bad" line, cuz jeep sure aint helping anyone.

As with the whole ford and mazda thing its like this:

Up until now ford only built the v8's and trucks, thats all, everything else was outsourced to other companies they have there hands in. What is happening now is ford is learning from its "allies" and basically doing the work themselves and losing dead weight.

I think mazda is relying on sales for there current cars to help them along until the new rx-7s and miatas come out. Lets be real, the rx-8 is a complete joke stock form (17sec 1/4 ets) esp compared to the rx-7's, the miatas once haled as the "sticky bean" of the circuit races has lost to a pontiac solstice. Reason why rx-8 is failing is because the emissions of the rotary engine, look at the race spec version where its just stock with the allowed mods, the thing screams and again had to be "detuned" because it was unfair to others in its class. The miata has just been a victim of the "it needs more trunk space" the buyers complain about, sacrificing the very reason why the car is so popular.
 
  #7  
Old 11-03-2010, 09:42 PM
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Seems like all of you are hating where Mazda is going, but I think is all personal opinion. Don't get me wrong, Ford does make a lot of great cars now. So great that I actually considered buying them. However, there are a few facts what you guys discussed here that I actually disagree.

1) Ford copy Mazda or Mazda copy Ford. To me, they are both guilty of doing it and both benefits from it. I don't think you can point finger on either of them.

2) True, Mazda have their Tribute and B series truck a direct rebadge of Ford ranger and Escape. Yea, but I don't know if you guys know this, Ford also is guilty of rebadging Mazda cars into Ford name plate in serveral asian country, including Japan. The country I was born and came from (Malaysia) I can confirmed to you that the Mazda 626 doesn't exist there, but instead Ford rebadged it as Ford Telstar back in the 80s & 90s. Mazda and Ford made a deal where Mazda get to use some Ford's model to sell in US in return Ford get to use some Mazda model to sell in Asia. That way both Mazda and Ford get a little more presense in US and Asia, respectively. This is a fact, I did not made it up.

3) For all you new 2010 generation Mazda3 haters. Just want to let you know not everyone hates them. In fact still a lot of people love them. I am one of them. And if the new 2010 3 really is that bad, it would have not sold well. But the numbers that has been sold is telling a different story. From what I know, 2010 Mazda 3 has been selling very well. In fact I thought I saw articles about 2010 3 is the number #1 selling sedan in Canada for the 1st quarter of 2010, outsold Civic, Corolla, Focus, Jetta, u name it. How do you explain where Mazda is going is a failure? True is not the top selling car in US, but different country has different taste. But still also sell well in US as well. When I got my 2010 3 just this summer, the guy that install anti-theft immobilizer on my car asked me why I picked the 2010 3 out of 1 curiosity, cuz that is the #1 new car he run across installing anti-theft immobilizer system. He told me it seems like the everyone are buying them, which I do see a lot of them all over the road. I live in Southern Cali, one of the biggest car market in the US.

4) True Mazda only probably only sell a lot of 3 and the rest are not selling as well. Whether Mazda stay as small company or not matters very little to me. As long as they continue to make the kind of car I like/enjoy driving. Also, as long as Mazda is profitable, big or small really doesn't matter. Some car company like Toyota, Honda, GM, Ford are more focus on making car the majority of the people want (in other words, focus on making $$$). Mazda is more like making cars only a small unique group of people like us that want to drive them (that got a little more passion for cars performance). Like Subaru, they are unique cuz of their AWD specialty. They will never be a big company cuz their AWD does require higher up front cost and lower MPG. It does not appeal to a lot of the budget buyers. You have to pay a little more premium for it. But Subaru make great cars that are even more realiable than Toyota anyday.

Bottomline is, for Ford and Mazda both going on their separate way to me it means, they both can stand on their own feet solid now. Not because Ford doesn't need Mazda or vice versa. It is actually a good thing. This actually makes me wonder what kind of unique cars both Ford and Mazda going to create in the future that are absolutely not related to each other.

Oh here is another funny things I notice. Japanese people actually hates buying Japanese cars. All my Japanese friends plus the Japanese people I run across in Southern Cali want Ford, GM or Chrysler cars, they hate Toyota, Honda or Nissan.
 

Last edited by petroxg; 11-03-2010 at 09:48 PM.
  #8  
Old 11-03-2010, 10:10 PM
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A couple of comments:

1) It is extremely old news that Ford and Mazda have rebadged each other's offerings.

2) As far as I can tell, the fugly second generation Mazda3 has yet to equal the sales levels posted by it's predecessor, in spite of the fact that the first generation model was getting a tad long in the tooth.

3) By all accounts (both personal experience and what I've read), Mazda is slipping a bit compared to some of its competitors, Ford included. Yes, the Mazda3 is a pretty good deal for the money, but the Gen 2 model just didn't raise the bar by much over the Gen 1 model, and no where near enough for it to hang with the competition when their new models start hitting the streets.

4) While I very much enjoy my 2009 Mazda3, it may be the last Mazda I own for a quite some time. Why? Better options for the money.
 
  #9  
Old 11-04-2010, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by virgin1 View Post

Perhaps they should consider an alliance w/Mitsubishi Motors? Two smaller companies working together?
Mitsubishi has never really been that focused on their automotive division. That'd be a waste for Mazda, unless they want to make their own Evo...which would be silly.

I really wonder how well Mazda will do on their own, with the crappy sales they have these days. Despite their ad campaigns suggesting the contrary, they've been slacking lately as Tracker said - their cars are not "track ready" anymore, save for the MS3 and MX-5. Much as I love the RX-8, a high 16/low 17 second 1/4 is laughable. You can't call something "track ready" is it's slower pulling away from the lights than a Malibu.

Honestly, though, I wouldn't be bothered seeing them disappear if they're going to continue down this path. None of their vehicles are even attractive anymore, the smiley face is ludicrous. The RX-8 pulls it off best, but still. If I were to spend 30K on a RWD sports car, Mazda would be at the bottom of my list.

If I ever get a Mazda, the newest it'll be is a 2009.
 

Last edited by VB; 11-04-2010 at 10:23 AM.
  #10  
Old 11-05-2010, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by petroxg View Post
Seems like all of you are hating where Mazda is going, but I think is all personal opinion. Don't get me wrong, Ford does make a lot of great cars now. So great that I actually considered buying them. However, there are a few facts what you guys discussed here that I actually disagree.

1) Ford copy Mazda or Mazda copy Ford. To me, they are both guilty of doing it and both benefits from it. I don't think you can point finger on either of them.

2) True, Mazda have their Tribute and B series truck a direct rebadge of Ford ranger and Escape. Yea, but I don't know if you guys know this, Ford also is guilty of rebadging Mazda cars into Ford name plate in serveral asian country, including Japan. The country I was born and came from (Malaysia) I can confirmed to you that the Mazda 626 doesn't exist there, but instead Ford rebadged it as Ford Telstar back in the 80s & 90s. Mazda and Ford made a deal where Mazda get to use some Ford's model to sell in US in return Ford get to use some Mazda model to sell in Asia. That way both Mazda and Ford get a little more presense in US and Asia, respectively. This is a fact, I did not made it up.

3) For all you new 2010 generation Mazda3 haters. Just want to let you know not everyone hates them. In fact still a lot of people love them. I am one of them. And if the new 2010 3 really is that bad, it would have not sold well. But the numbers that has been sold is telling a different story. From what I know, 2010 Mazda 3 has been selling very well. In fact I thought I saw articles about 2010 3 is the number #1 selling sedan in Canada for the 1st quarter of 2010, outsold Civic, Corolla, Focus, Jetta, u name it. How do you explain where Mazda is going is a failure? True is not the top selling car in US, but different country has different taste. But still also sell well in US as well. When I got my 2010 3 just this summer, the guy that install anti-theft immobilizer on my car asked me why I picked the 2010 3 out of 1 curiosity, cuz that is the #1 new car he run across installing anti-theft immobilizer system. He told me it seems like the everyone are buying them, which I do see a lot of them all over the road. I live in Southern Cali, one of the biggest car market in the US.

4) True Mazda only probably only sell a lot of 3 and the rest are not selling as well. Whether Mazda stay as small company or not matters very little to me. As long as they continue to make the kind of car I like/enjoy driving. Also, as long as Mazda is profitable, big or small really doesn't matter. Some car company like Toyota, Honda, GM, Ford are more focus on making car the majority of the people want (in other words, focus on making $$$). Mazda is more like making cars only a small unique group of people like us that want to drive them (that got a little more passion for cars performance). Like Subaru, they are unique cuz of their AWD specialty. They will never be a big company cuz their AWD does require higher up front cost and lower MPG. It does not appeal to a lot of the budget buyers. You have to pay a little more premium for it. But Subaru make great cars that are even more realiable than Toyota anyday.

Bottomline is, for Ford and Mazda both going on their separate way to me it means, they both can stand on their own feet solid now. Not because Ford doesn't need Mazda or vice versa. It is actually a good thing. This actually makes me wonder what kind of unique cars both Ford and Mazda going to create in the future that are absolutely not related to each other.

Oh here is another funny things I notice. Japanese people actually hates buying Japanese cars. All my Japanese friends plus the Japanese people I run across in Southern Cali want Ford, GM or Chrysler cars, they hate Toyota, Honda or Nissan.

1) What Shipo said

2) No comment, this is a common practice with other car companies

3) No offense to you but there are alot of people who buy things that they shouldnt buy and just say "that looks differnent than all the others, lets get it", at the time they think its a good idea and get caught up in the "new car" thing but never stop to really look at it and see what is really being sold, also a salesman is never going to tell you something bad about ta car. Plenty examples include ANY kia older than 09, geo, etc, given those are way older technology the same applies to any newer vehicle. Here's another example, ever notice how bmw sales are going through the crapper its because they got a new guy to redesign the cars (much like mazda), yes they are being sold but they look horrible and instead of staying with there powerful all motor approach they have decided to turbo there vehicles and making them heavier and slower.

4) Tell me what car you see is performance in the current mazdas, the mx-5 was changed to accommodate for more trunk space, ffs the mazda 6 built by tripoint waxes the miata hands down. the whole "on any given race day there is more mazdas on track" what they are referring too i dont know because all the races ive seen there are about 2-3 mazdas and 2-4 other company cars racing for that fact there is ONE company that uses the '10 spd 3 and guess what the stock ecu is horrible, its not letting them do anything, made some changes and are STILL running in the back with the srt-4 and gti's, mazda has lost most if not all credibility on making sensible cars that can be track friendly.

Its always been Japs wanna buy american and americans want to buy euro and jap spec cars, its because its hard or impossible to get them. Take a look at what the japs can get, the same cars we buy the versions they get are way better. If the 3 wasent to popular it would be axed in the 2011 lineup the sales they are pulling are just enough to keep it afloat.
 

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