Hey gang, I just joined here tonight after having been thoroughly impressed by driving a Mazda3 i Touring sedan earlier this evening.

A little background, I started my professional life as an automotive wrench more decades ago than I care to admit, and then graduated into software engineering. Through the years I've owned lots of interesting rides that ranged from a 1970 Dodge Challenger 4-Speed, to a 1979 VW Scirocco 5-Speed, to a 2002 BMW 530i 5-Speed (which I picked up in Germany, fun-fun). Now in 2008 my business partner and I find ourselves digging out from under a mountain of debt from a new business venture that we started in 2005, and that failed earlier this year. Back when we started the second business we decided that our fancy automotive toys needed to go in lieu of more fiscally responsible rides, and for me that meant dusting off our "Home-Depot hack", a 1998 Dodge Grand Caravan that we rarely ever drove, and use it as my daily driver. With the digging out process continuing, we are still facing several more years with no new toys, unfortunately the DGC now has 170,000 miles on the clock and I just picked up a new contract that will have me driving over 25,000 miles per year. Hmmm, time for a new car that's a bit more frugal than my old 5er?

After driving a number of inexpensive cars over the past several months, I'd pretty much decided on a Rabbit 2-Door 5-Speed, however, I've been having a difficult time finding one that has both a manual transmission and a few other options such as factory alloy wheels and an upgraded audio system. Yesterday my frustration boiled over when I heard from yet another local dealer that the car I found on their web site had been sold "weeks ago". Grrrr! Wouldn't you know it, at almost that instant I found a link on the home page of my new client that gave the details of a "deal" they had for their employees with a large automotive dealership group which sells, among many other marques, Mazda.

I checked the Mazda web site, decided that the Mazda3 i Touring 5-Speed was just about perfect, and headed for the dealership. Unlike every VW dealership around here, this Mazda dealership seems to think that there are still plenty of folks out there that want to stir their own gears, and as such, nearly a third of the Mazda3 models on their lot was sporting three pedals under the dash. Yes!

So, a few comparisons:

Things I like better on the Rabbit compared to the 3:
- The Rabbit seems a bit quicker, and given its power advantage, that may well be true. That said, the 3 is no slouch, and certainly quick enough to use as a commute car.
- The Rabbit has a complete Multi-Function trip and fuel economy computer built into the dash. Hello, Scan-Gauge?
- The Rabbit seemed to be a bit more tossable on curvy roads, even with its lame 15" tires mounted on steel wheels. Here again, the 3 is no slouch and is easily a match for any other car I've driven in recent memory.
- The Rabbit seemed to have a bit more head room, especially in the rear. Not too much of a problem except when I wear a fedora to keep my chrome-dome warm in the winter.
- The Rabbit has better dim-ability of the main gauges, the speedo and tach on the 3 are almost too bright on dark winding 2-lane country roads. I'm old enough to be developing cataracts in my eyes, and this might be an issue. I understand that the 3 s models have different gauge lighting, can those models be dimmed better than the 3 i models?
- The Rabbit has a skid control system, and with two teenagers that will be getting their Driver's Licenses in the next couple of years, that could be a desirable trait to have.
- The Rabbit has heated seats, and Mrs. Shipo really likes heat seaters.

Things I like better on the 3 compared to the Rabbit:
- The 3 has a leather covered shift **** and steering wheel, the Rabbit is ugly and nasty feeling urethane. Ugh!
- The 3 has steering-wheel controls for audio and cruise, the Rabbit has a stalk mounted cruise control system, and the audio system is over there on the console stack.
- The 3 has seats that have more (or at least better) adjustability for my aging butt.
- The 3 has interior materials that are generally a cut above those used in the Rabbit (and pretty much everything else in this class).
- The 3 gets better fuel economy than the Rabbit (although it still trails the Civic, Cobalt, and even the Focus).
- The 3 seems to have better rear leg room for my two teenagers than the Rabbit.
- While I like the looks of the Rabbit, I think the 3 Sedan is significantly more visually appealing.
- The 3 has decent alloy wheels standard. Did I mention how lame the steelies on the Rabbit are?

After my test drive the saleswoman cooked my up a price, and with the "Employee Discount" coupled with "Dealer Cash", she offered me one of the 3 i Tourings on the lot for $500 below invoice. I'm thinking that combined with the cheaper financing Mazda is currently offering (compared to VW), the Mazda3 i Touring is actually a couple of dollars per month cheaper to own than the lesser expensive Rabbit.

So, my dilemma is, do I "bet" that the old Caravan will last another year or two without any major repair issues (its been insanely reliable since the day we drove it off the showroom floor in July of 1998), or do I pop for a new Mazda3 or a Rabbit. I'll keep y'all posted. Oh! Sorry for the long post.

 

Well, you ARE on a Mazda forum so we might be juuussstttt a little bit biased, but I will say that VW's reliability record sucks and has for some time now. Another thing to consider.....

 

Yeah, there's a reason I see about 1/4 the amount of VWs as Mazdas...take it from a guy who doesn't even own a Mazda. You'll regret getting the Rabbit when it costs you thousands to fix - VW reliability has been garbage since the 80s.

 

A couple of points:



1) I wasn't at all worried about any pro Mazda bias when I posted here, I like the Mazda3 a lot and came here to hear other folks talk it up as well.

2) Hmmm, around these parts at least, there are WAAAY more VWs Rabbits/GTIs/Jettas/GLIs than Mazda3s, in fact, I'm thinking that it's as much as three to one in favor of the VWs.

3) Over the last fifteen years my wife and I have owned two VWs, two BMWs, three Dodges, and a Mazda. Of the eight cars, the only one that had even a single warranty issue was the Mazda, and it had LOTS of them. In fact, my single Mazda (a 1993 MX6) was so bad that I had to dump it after only 18,000 miles at a significant loss.

4) I understand that in general, Mazdas are more reliable that VWs, but I'm more than a bit handy with a wrench, and personally could care less about a relatively small statistical difference in reliability between these two companies.

5) If I was presented with a Mazda3 i Touring sedan and a Rabbit 2-Door tomorrow that had exactly the options I wanted, with the exact same price and the exact same financing, I'd probably pick the Mazda. That said, as things are shaping up right now, the single largest reason I'll opt for the 3 is that my local Mazda dealership has a half of a dozen cars in stock right now configured the way I'd buy them, however, every manual equipped Rabbit inbound to every VW dealership within a 75 mile radius is already sold for the next several months. Why? Beat's the stuffin' outta me.



I'm thinking that by this time next Tuesday I'll have a new Mazda3 i Touring sitting in my garage.

 

Go with the Mazda3. I just got my '09 Mazda3 i Touring Value and I absolutely love it. I actually traded in a MINI Cooper S. The Mazda is a much nicer car for me.

 

2: Mazdas aren't that popular themselves around here, but then again, people write them off - it's a Merc/BMW/Lexus kinda borough (lease, of course!). VWs, though, are very scarce.

3: The MX-6 was a Ford Probe, IIRC...I don't particularly dislike Ford, but that may explain the trouble you had with it.

4: Yeah, if you're willing to do work yourself, the cost of ownership stat is likely pretty useless to you.

5: I would take the 3i as well, even though I personally prefer the hatch. I don't know about you, but I haven't heard anything from Car & Driver, Road & Track, etc. expressing any special love for the Rabbit. The 3, on the other hand, is probably the overall favorite compact for drivers.

 

My previous 1993Toyota had over 176K on the ODO when I traded it in for my Mazda3 in early 2007. In the 18 months preceding trading it in,the total amount I spent inrepairsexceeded what Igot for the trade in by several hundred bucks (I got fair blue book value on the trade in)... and even with the repairs, it was not running great. My point is once your past a certain point in mileage/age, it can easily end up not working out. Especially if your going to be driving the mileage you say (25K a year), I wouldn't continue with your caravan.

Re: your comparison list, the 3i (which is what I have) does have a fuel economy computer (you may need to turn it on via a back door method, you can find details on this site of how to do so). Re: the speedo/tach colors, not sure what the current colors are, mine are bright orange numbersw/blue backgroundat night -my personal experience-the colors seemed overwhelming at first, but in time I have really grown to like them. Of course, this is a personal preference thing. I never hated the colors, though, if you truly hate them currently, you may always hate them. That is worth thinking about.

I'm not a fan of VWs or the current generation of German cars in general, as others have touched on, their reliability has not been among the leaders for several years.

 

Most of the significant problems with that car were related to the transmission (although it had any number electrical gremlins as well). The tranny would simply pop out of gear at any given moment, and I found myself literally holding it in whatever gear I was in via the stick, especially in fifth when climbing a grade. The clutch was a nasty piece of work as well, sometimes operating perfectly, other times the pedal would go all of the way to the floor with no apparent disengagement of the clutch. The dealer was no help either as every time I brought it in they wouldsay, "Could not duplicate."

Agreed. The good news here is that both the Rabbit and the 3 i look pretty easy to work on.

Hmmm, I do not remember which magazines I read the comparison reports in, however, I found at least two comparos that included both cars, and it each, it was the Rabbit in first place with the Mazda3 running a close second.

I just did a quick check and came up with the following (I did not find the second article):
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/..._vs_2006_honda
_civic_2007_hyundai_elantra_2007_mazda_3_2007_vw_r abbit_2007_nissan_sentra_comparison_test

Long story short, given that I can buy the 5-Speed Mazda today while the 5-Speed VW is nowhere to be found, and given the better fuel economy of the Mazda, the decision of which new car to buy (if I decide to buy that is) has turned into a no-brainer.

 

At 170,000 miles, the Caravan is no spring chicken, and it is definitely starting to show its age (rust spots started popping up last spring). So far, I have only needed to replace the starter, the battery (twice), the rear shocks, a power window regulator, a door switch and the bulbs in the headlights (twice). That said, I have a list of items that are candidates for prophylactic replacement that should probably be done in the next six months or so, and the price tag for doing them is probably an easy $2,000 (primarily because most of them require a lift, something that I do not have access to), and that is way-way more than the old girl is worth. The thing is, the van runs as well as it did the day I drove it off the showroom floor in July of 1998, the engine still uses only a quart of oil every ~7,500 miles (I have used Mobil 1 since it was new with a ten to twelve thousand mile OCI), and on a recent 1,000+ mile road trip with the cruise control set at a conservative 67 mph (way slower than I usually drive), she actually returned 25.7 mpg, not to bad for a 4,000 pound minivan with a 3.8 liter engine.

Wow, that is good to know about the fuel economy computer, thanks a bunch. Regarding the instrument lighting, it is not the colors so much that bugs me (I actually do not mind them), it is the brightness of the lighting at night. Either the car that I drove had a fault with the dimmer, or the gauges do not dim very low. At night, have you ever dimmed your gauges to their lowest setting? If so, how bright are the gauges in your 3i?
Hmmm, the last German car that ever gave me any problems was my 1982 Audi GT Coupe, and even then, the only problem was when the tranny lost its second gear syncro after about 2,000 miles. Since then I've driven a half of a dozen German cars (VWs, Audis, and BMWs), and the most serious unscheduled repair was a burned out taillight (my 1999 328i did that twice). While I have heard story after story after story about the step-brother of the third cousin (twice removed) of the guy across the street's ex-wife who had lots of problems with his (enter the German marque here), I have yet to experience any of that. In addition, I have been a contributing member on a couple of BMW related boards for a decade now, and yes, I hear about a problem from time to time, however, I seriously doubt that those problems are more severe or frequent than from any other marque.

 

I don't really know anything about the rabbit so I won't try to comment on it. I will say that if you're looking for an economical car then the 3 is a good candidate. Also from the way you were describing pros/cons between the two that the 3 would be more practical for you (more back seat space for the kids, extra doors, etc.). Again I haven't driven the rabbit, but the clutch in the 3 is super forgiving so is really easy for new drivers to learn on. Also even though the 3i doesn't have a heated seat option you can pick up a set of carbon fiber seat heaters for as little as $75/side which work very well. Since you like to play on your cars I imagine you'd have no problems installing them. Oh and steering wheel audio controls are awesome!

For the gauges I can't comment much on the 3i as I have a 3s, and the 3i gauges changed in the last couple of years. On the 3s there are multiple dimming settings for the gauges. With the lights off you can dim down the red (about 6 settings I think). When you turn on the headlights the blue lighting turns on, and whatever brightness you set for the "daytime" (i.e. lights off) will be what they default to when the lights are on. Once the lights are on the button that dims during "daytime" mode will flip it into "nighttime" mode where the blue lighting stays on and the red dims to a very nice nighttime level. Also in night mode the dash dimmer will dim down the entire dash including the cluster, in daytime mode it doesn't. If you really liked the gauges in the 3s you could get one of those (in either sedan or hatchback), however you'll be paying more and the fuel economy will suffer. It's possible to put 3s gauges in a 3i, however you'd have to have the cluster reprogrammed at the dealer as the PATS info is stored in there, and I'm not sure if there's a harness for the blue lights on the 3s cluster on the 3i. Something to look into though.

As to the fuel computer that can be unlocked AFAIK it can't be unlocked on all of the newer models. I know on '06-'07 models it can be unlocked on any trim level, however on '08+ models Mazda figured out what people were doing and there are specific radios it works with. So I would perhaps look into that before you buy a 3 and assume it will work.

Lastly I know DSC/TCS are available on some models but I'm not sure which ones. Honestly while they can be nice to have and can help you be a better driver they won't necessarily keep a poor driver who's not paying attention from getting into an accident. I love the Allstate commercial where they have a slowed down video of a guy spilling coffee in his lap and then rear-ending a stopped car. As the car slowly approaches the other one the narrator is detailing all of the safety systems the car has and pointing out that the guy is still getting into an accident. I think they were talking about their accident forgiveness program..... anyway I digress. I would recommend that you only get the 3 with the side airbags as the side impact tests without them were poor.