Mazda 3 vs. Scion TC vs. Mazda 6
#12
04-10-2006, 04:48 AM
RE: Mazda 3 vs. Scion TC vs. Mazda 6
Ford does not make Mazda nor do they own them. I may not be correct on the percentage but I recall reading Ford has 20% stake in Mazda as well as a engineering agreement. Under the Ford "owned" tree you will find: Aston Martin, Jaguar, Land Rover (Range Rover) and Volvo. These manufurers used to be called Ford's "PAG family" (Premier Auto Group) but I beleive it was dismanteled last year. However, Ford does list Mazda as part of the "Ford family".
Anyway, Ford follows VW with the largest shared chassis vehicles. As we already know our Mazda 3's are sisters to the Volvo S40/V50 and the European Ford Focus. Volvo designed the chassis w/Ford Europe. Mazda was included in the program fairly late in development. The most noticeable Volvo design element in our Mazda 3 are the large Volvo SIP (Side Impact Protection) triangles at the bottom B-pillar corners of front door openings. Ford of Europe insisted on a fairly high cowl for frontal pedestrian safety (NCAP Safety standard). Mazda was able to use the high cowl to provide a stiff structure for thier new Mazda 5. Volvo requires the longest model cycle so the others will only periodically refresh their versions like Mazda is doing this Fall with the Mazda Speed 3 with performance upgrade (250 hp) and redesigned front/rear clips. Jaguar may release a X-type off of this groups next chassis which is expected around 2009. BTW: Land Rover's next Freelander may be based on the chassis also...
Other Ford shared chassis' are the Volvo S80 which has morphed into the Volvo XC90, the Ford 500, Ford Freestyle and Mercury Montego. The Ford/Mercury offerings will continue on with chassis while the new '07 S80 has been redesigned on a new one. I'm not sure about the XC90 truck family (Freestyle) but I expect it to last a couple more years or so.
Ford is going nuts with the Mazda 6 chassis which has sponned the Ford Fusion, Mercury Milan and Lincoln Zephr. Other cross-over vehicles may be based on the chassis too.
On the high end, the Jaguar S-type, Lincoln LS, Ford Thunderbird and the new Mustang are based on the DEW98 chassis. The Aston Martin DB9 and new '07 Jaguar XK8 are related. I believe the last year's XK8 (cira old XJ-S) and Aston Martin Vantage, Vanquish are cousins also. That's it for the Ford blood lines I know of.
Now to the subject...
The Mazda 3 was intended from the begining to be a sports-compact with all of the needed hardware to succeed. The Scion TC was designed from the begining to be a good inexpensive commuter car with a nicer interior than the other Scion models. Performance, despite the many add-on options, was not the goal of this car... Its a nice car because of the standard equipment but lacks in its tossable appeal. The Mazda 6 is first and foremost a sports-family car. It handles better than an Accord or Camry but will never compete with the 3. Even the recent Mazdaspeed 6 has been drawing mixed reviews. Imagine if Volvo's S40/V50 AWD drivetrain and the speed 6's turbo engine w/274 hp were installed in a 3 as it was previously suspected! The WRX STi and Evo would have been crushed!
Drive your 3, steal the TC's pride and respect the family in the 6!
Anyway, Ford follows VW with the largest shared chassis vehicles. As we already know our Mazda 3's are sisters to the Volvo S40/V50 and the European Ford Focus. Volvo designed the chassis w/Ford Europe. Mazda was included in the program fairly late in development. The most noticeable Volvo design element in our Mazda 3 are the large Volvo SIP (Side Impact Protection) triangles at the bottom B-pillar corners of front door openings. Ford of Europe insisted on a fairly high cowl for frontal pedestrian safety (NCAP Safety standard). Mazda was able to use the high cowl to provide a stiff structure for thier new Mazda 5. Volvo requires the longest model cycle so the others will only periodically refresh their versions like Mazda is doing this Fall with the Mazda Speed 3 with performance upgrade (250 hp) and redesigned front/rear clips. Jaguar may release a X-type off of this groups next chassis which is expected around 2009. BTW: Land Rover's next Freelander may be based on the chassis also...
Other Ford shared chassis' are the Volvo S80 which has morphed into the Volvo XC90, the Ford 500, Ford Freestyle and Mercury Montego. The Ford/Mercury offerings will continue on with chassis while the new '07 S80 has been redesigned on a new one. I'm not sure about the XC90 truck family (Freestyle) but I expect it to last a couple more years or so.
Ford is going nuts with the Mazda 6 chassis which has sponned the Ford Fusion, Mercury Milan and Lincoln Zephr. Other cross-over vehicles may be based on the chassis too.
On the high end, the Jaguar S-type, Lincoln LS, Ford Thunderbird and the new Mustang are based on the DEW98 chassis. The Aston Martin DB9 and new '07 Jaguar XK8 are related. I believe the last year's XK8 (cira old XJ-S) and Aston Martin Vantage, Vanquish are cousins also. That's it for the Ford blood lines I know of.
Now to the subject...
The Mazda 3 was intended from the begining to be a sports-compact with all of the needed hardware to succeed. The Scion TC was designed from the begining to be a good inexpensive commuter car with a nicer interior than the other Scion models. Performance, despite the many add-on options, was not the goal of this car... Its a nice car because of the standard equipment but lacks in its tossable appeal. The Mazda 6 is first and foremost a sports-family car. It handles better than an Accord or Camry but will never compete with the 3. Even the recent Mazdaspeed 6 has been drawing mixed reviews. Imagine if Volvo's S40/V50 AWD drivetrain and the speed 6's turbo engine w/274 hp were installed in a 3 as it was previously suspected! The WRX STi and Evo would have been crushed!
Drive your 3, steal the TC's pride and respect the family in the 6!
#14
04-10-2006, 03:43 PM
RE: Mazda 3 vs. Scion TC vs. Mazda 6
ok as far as the person earlier saying toyota doesnt know whats on their own lot. true in a way and not true. some salesman dont keep up with their inventory. i say this as a former toyota salesman man. also sold cars for nissan, dodge,jeep,chrysler. when it comes to scions. dealerships do not keep them in stock for tire kickers (people just going to look at cars, and not buy) 95% of the scion tcs in dealerships are already spoken for. tc's are ordered specifically for a person.
now as far as comparing. i drive a civic. but i just test drove my first mazda 3 last week. i drove the 3i because they didnt have the s model in stock. the 3 drives so much better than the scion tc. the tc suspension sucks, you feel all the bumps. what alot of people dont know, the mazda 3 has the same suspension used on some volvos i believe its the s-40. the tc is not really over priced. being its a toyota, that car will hold its value. and your getting all the "extras" already included. the reason people think its expensive, is because scion has a "no haggle" pricing setup. in which reality they are not making much profit from the sale. they make their profit in volume ( amount of cars sold) there is not much mark up on a new scion. about 1k mark up from invoice.
im waiting to find out when a new body style of the 3 will be released. gonna wait to see what the 2007 model looks like.
now as far as comparing. i drive a civic. but i just test drove my first mazda 3 last week. i drove the 3i because they didnt have the s model in stock. the 3 drives so much better than the scion tc. the tc suspension sucks, you feel all the bumps. what alot of people dont know, the mazda 3 has the same suspension used on some volvos i believe its the s-40. the tc is not really over priced. being its a toyota, that car will hold its value. and your getting all the "extras" already included. the reason people think its expensive, is because scion has a "no haggle" pricing setup. in which reality they are not making much profit from the sale. they make their profit in volume ( amount of cars sold) there is not much mark up on a new scion. about 1k mark up from invoice.
im waiting to find out when a new body style of the 3 will be released. gonna wait to see what the 2007 model looks like.
#16
04-11-2006, 12:55 PM
RE: Mazda 3 vs. Scion TC vs. Mazda 6
ford has 33.4% share in Mazda. In Japanese law - if someone owns over 33% of a company, they have a controling share in that company. This is precisely what Ford has....This doesnt make a mazda a ford...this just allows ford to share technology with mazda and rip off some of its chassis for other vehicles...as u recall the b5000 or wahtever was exactly like the ford ranger.... the mazda 3 is 100% japanese... ford shared some info with mazda about manufacturing techniques about the newley designed engine for the 3...thats about it...
