CX-5 terrible in snow
#101
So today, I figured I'd go for a quick walk/hike in a local trail (Mills Reservation) near me in Montclair NJ. I guess it was a somewhat higher elevation that allowed the snow to remain in the lot and the trails, but anyway..
Since the opportunity presented itself, I figured I would try out Subaru's AWD system and by default the tires on my 2021 Crosstrek in a hundred or so foot slight hill - snow/slush and (slightly) ice covered. The Crosstrek struggled a bit but did better in the SNOW MODE and although the wheels were spinnin' did make it up the hill. These pics do not reflect the incline of the hill. BTW, that's my blue Crosstek in the first picture. So, I figured since I live so close by, I'd give the CX-5 the same whirl under pretty much the same conditions. Both had new, highly rated All Weather tires.
Well, even though it was heavier (maybe because?) than the Crosstrek, I did not make it to the top, wheels were spinning in place, even with trying the manual lower gears. I just well........kept spinning my wheels. Now, granted I was starting from a cold start, not a continuous run with all the momentum and if it were a real matter of getting stuck - instead of a quick, unscientific "test" I probably could have maneuvered differently. But I have to give the (expected) nod to the Subaru and their AWD system. Yeah, there's a reason they call the Outback the state car of Vermont. Having said that, I soothed myself in the CX-5's so very quite and comfortable drive home.
Since the opportunity presented itself, I figured I would try out Subaru's AWD system and by default the tires on my 2021 Crosstrek in a hundred or so foot slight hill - snow/slush and (slightly) ice covered. The Crosstrek struggled a bit but did better in the SNOW MODE and although the wheels were spinnin' did make it up the hill. These pics do not reflect the incline of the hill. BTW, that's my blue Crosstek in the first picture. So, I figured since I live so close by, I'd give the CX-5 the same whirl under pretty much the same conditions. Both had new, highly rated All Weather tires.
Well, even though it was heavier (maybe because?) than the Crosstrek, I did not make it to the top, wheels were spinning in place, even with trying the manual lower gears. I just well........kept spinning my wheels. Now, granted I was starting from a cold start, not a continuous run with all the momentum and if it were a real matter of getting stuck - instead of a quick, unscientific "test" I probably could have maneuvered differently. But I have to give the (expected) nod to the Subaru and their AWD system. Yeah, there's a reason they call the Outback the state car of Vermont. Having said that, I soothed myself in the CX-5's so very quite and comfortable drive home.
Last edited by bobm; 02-27-2021 at 07:50 PM.
#102
The Vredestein Quatrac Pro has significantly greater amounts of siping and a much different tread block design as compared to the Michelin CrossClimate 2. Both are 3PMSF 3-peak mountain snow rated for severe winter conditions. I wonder if there's a significant distinction in the tire compound used between the two.
It is interesting how even slight differences in conditions can dramatically alter grip with a given car/tire.
It would be interesting to see if the CX-5's grip on that same road, that day, would have been different with, say, the Vredestein Wintrac Pro.
Finest grip I've ever experienced in a sedan format car: Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2 (IIRC) on a VW Passat 4Motion. No matter the type of surface in the winter, that car simply couldn't be stopped. Ice, slush, refrozen crud mix a foot deep, off-camber cornering with wintry mix, or snow of all depths. Once headed up a steep one-lane forest road with between 2-3ft of snow in ~10ºF temps. Amazing grip. On the flats in straight snow conditions, grip was very nearly like normal dry trip with great summer tires. The first year of those Hakkas were indescribably amazing, for grip. Compared to the third year on a set of Dunlop Winter Sport M3 (IIRC, which had begun to lose its "oomph" on the wintry stuff), the third winter season of the Hakkas were head and shoulders above. Siping and tread block design were similar, but the compounds were different. Don't know for certain what explained why the Hakkas had nearly first-year grip after several seasons, but the Dunlop Winter Sports dropped off significantly after about ~15Kmi of winter season use. Same ratty and steep, one-lane forest road, same deep snow, same car, Hakka R2's vs Dunlop WS in their third winter seasons of use: vastly different levels of grip.
#103
Hard to tell whether it was the AWD difference between the vehicles, with different tires.
The Vredestein Quatrac Pro has significantly greater amounts of siping and a much different tread block design as compared to the Michelin CrossClimate 2. Both are 3PMSF 3-peak mountain snow rated for severe winter conditions. I wonder if there's a significant distinction in the tire compound used between the two.
It is interesting how even slight differences in conditions can dramatically alter grip with a given car/tire.
It would be interesting to see if the CX-5's grip on that same road, that day, would have been different with, say, the Vredestein Wintrac Pro.
Finest grip I've ever experienced in a sedan format car: Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2 (IIRC) on a VW Passat 4Motion. No matter the type of surface in the winter, that car simply couldn't be stopped. Ice, slush, refrozen crud mix a foot deep, off-camber cornering with wintry mix, or snow of all depths. Once headed up a steep one-lane forest road with between 2-3ft of snow in ~10ºF temps. Amazing grip. On the flats in straight snow conditions, grip was very nearly like normal dry trip with great summer tires. The first year of those Hakkas were indescribably amazing, for grip. Compared to the third year on a set of Dunlop Winter Sport M3 (IIRC, which had begun to lose its "oomph" on the wintry stuff), the third winter season of the Hakkas were head and shoulders above. Siping and tread block design were similar, but the compounds were different. Don't know for certain what explained why the Hakkas had nearly first-year grip after several seasons, but the Dunlop Winter Sports dropped off significantly after about ~15Kmi of winter season use. Same ratty and steep, one-lane forest road, same deep snow, same car, Hakka R2's vs Dunlop WS in their third winter seasons of use: vastly different levels of grip.
The Vredestein Quatrac Pro has significantly greater amounts of siping and a much different tread block design as compared to the Michelin CrossClimate 2. Both are 3PMSF 3-peak mountain snow rated for severe winter conditions. I wonder if there's a significant distinction in the tire compound used between the two.
It is interesting how even slight differences in conditions can dramatically alter grip with a given car/tire.
It would be interesting to see if the CX-5's grip on that same road, that day, would have been different with, say, the Vredestein Wintrac Pro.
Finest grip I've ever experienced in a sedan format car: Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2 (IIRC) on a VW Passat 4Motion. No matter the type of surface in the winter, that car simply couldn't be stopped. Ice, slush, refrozen crud mix a foot deep, off-camber cornering with wintry mix, or snow of all depths. Once headed up a steep one-lane forest road with between 2-3ft of snow in ~10ºF temps. Amazing grip. On the flats in straight snow conditions, grip was very nearly like normal dry trip with great summer tires. The first year of those Hakkas were indescribably amazing, for grip. Compared to the third year on a set of Dunlop Winter Sport M3 (IIRC, which had begun to lose its "oomph" on the wintry stuff), the third winter season of the Hakkas were head and shoulders above. Siping and tread block design were similar, but the compounds were different. Don't know for certain what explained why the Hakkas had nearly first-year grip after several seasons, but the Dunlop Winter Sports dropped off significantly after about ~15Kmi of winter season use. Same ratty and steep, one-lane forest road, same deep snow, same car, Hakka R2's vs Dunlop WS in their third winter seasons of use: vastly different levels of grip.
But at the end of the day the AWD systems are different and Subaru system - along with Audi's Quattro AWD system are very well proven.
#104
Have driven both in the winter, much more frequently in an '80s vintage Subaru AWD wagon, but also the Audi Q5 Quattro and the S6 Quattro. As you say, serious winter "machines," those. Proper ice+snow tires for winter make the most difference but, still, whatever it is Subaru and Audi do with their AWD system, they certainly do it right.
Last edited by GAsierra; 02-28-2021 at 11:32 AM.
#105
For the discussion -- AllTyreTests
Here's a fairly decent tire review website: AllTyreTests -- reviews of tires, including many dozens of winter-oriented tires and comparisons to other "top" tires in the category.
An example of some of the tires reviewed for winter capabilities:
.
.
Here's a fairly decent tire review website: AllTyreTests -- reviews of tires, including many dozens of winter-oriented tires and comparisons to other "top" tires in the category.
An example of some of the tires reviewed for winter capabilities:
.
.
Aeolus Ice Challenger AW 05 -- https://alltyretests.com/aeolus-ice-...5-test-review/
Antares Grip 60 Ice -- https://alltyretests.com/antares-gri...e-test-review/
Apollo Alnac Winter -- https://alltyretests.com/apollo-alna...r-test-review/
Bridgestone Blizzak Ice -- https://alltyretests.com/bridgestone...e-test-review/
Bridgestone Blizzak LM005 -- https://alltyretests.com/bridgestone...5-test-review/
Bridgestone Blizzak Spike 02 -- https://alltyretests.com/bridgestone...2-test-review/
Bridgestone Blizzak WS80 -- https://alltyretests.com/bridgestone...0-test-review/
Bridgestone Noranza SUV 001 -- https://alltyretests.com/bridgestone...1-test-review/
Continental VikingContact 7 -- https://alltyretests.com/continental...7-test-review/
Continental WinterContact TS850 -- https://alltyretests.com/continental...0-test-review/
Cooper Weather Master SA2 Plus -- https://alltyretests.com/cooper-weat...s-test-review/
Cooper Weather Master Ice 100 -- https://alltyretests.com/cooper-weat...0-test-review/
Cooper Weather Master WSC -- https://alltyretests.com/cooper-weat...c-test-review/
Dunlop Grandtrek SJ6 -- https://alltyretests.com/dunlop-gran...6-test-review/
Fulda Kristall Montero 3 -- https://alltyretests.com/fulda-krist...3-test-review/
Goodyear Ultragrip Ice 2 -- https://alltyretests.com/goodyear-ul...2-test-review/
Goodyear Ultragrip SUV -- https://alltyretests.com/goodyear-ul...v-test-review/
Nokian Hakkapeliitta R3 -- https://alltyretests.com/nokian-hakk...v-test-review/
Nokian Hakkapeliitta 9 SUV -- https://alltyretests.com/nokian-hakk...v-test-review/
Nokian Nordman 7 -- https://alltyretests.com/nokian-nord...v-test-review/
Nokian Nordman RS2 -- https://alltyretests.com/nokian-nord...2-test-review/
Nokian WR D4 (since replaced by WR G4) -- https://alltyretests.com/nokian-wr-d4-test-review/
Pirelli Winter iceControl -- https://alltyretests.com/pirelli-win...l-test-review/
Toyo Observe GSI 6 -- https://alltyretests.com/toyo-observ...p-test-review/
Viking Snowtech 2 -- https://alltyretests.com/viking-snowtech-2-test-review/
Vredestein Arctrac -- https://alltyretests.com/vredestein-...c-test-review/
Vredestein Nord Trac 2 -- https://alltyretests.com/vredestein-...2-test-review/
Vredestein Snowtrac 5 -- https://alltyretests.com/vredestein-...5-test-review/
Vredestein Wintrac Ice -- https://alltyretests.com/vredestein-...e-test-review/
Vredestein Wintrac Pro -- https://alltyretests.com/vredestein-...o-test-review/
Vredestein Wintrac Xtreme S -- https://alltyretests.com/vredestein-...s-test-review/
Yokohama Ice Guard ig51v -- https://alltyretests.com/yokohama-ic...v-test-review/
Antares Grip 60 Ice -- https://alltyretests.com/antares-gri...e-test-review/
Apollo Alnac Winter -- https://alltyretests.com/apollo-alna...r-test-review/
Bridgestone Blizzak Ice -- https://alltyretests.com/bridgestone...e-test-review/
Bridgestone Blizzak LM005 -- https://alltyretests.com/bridgestone...5-test-review/
Bridgestone Blizzak Spike 02 -- https://alltyretests.com/bridgestone...2-test-review/
Bridgestone Blizzak WS80 -- https://alltyretests.com/bridgestone...0-test-review/
Bridgestone Noranza SUV 001 -- https://alltyretests.com/bridgestone...1-test-review/
Continental VikingContact 7 -- https://alltyretests.com/continental...7-test-review/
Continental WinterContact TS850 -- https://alltyretests.com/continental...0-test-review/
Cooper Weather Master SA2 Plus -- https://alltyretests.com/cooper-weat...s-test-review/
Cooper Weather Master Ice 100 -- https://alltyretests.com/cooper-weat...0-test-review/
Cooper Weather Master WSC -- https://alltyretests.com/cooper-weat...c-test-review/
Dunlop Grandtrek SJ6 -- https://alltyretests.com/dunlop-gran...6-test-review/
Fulda Kristall Montero 3 -- https://alltyretests.com/fulda-krist...3-test-review/
Goodyear Ultragrip Ice 2 -- https://alltyretests.com/goodyear-ul...2-test-review/
Goodyear Ultragrip SUV -- https://alltyretests.com/goodyear-ul...v-test-review/
Nokian Hakkapeliitta R3 -- https://alltyretests.com/nokian-hakk...v-test-review/
Nokian Hakkapeliitta 9 SUV -- https://alltyretests.com/nokian-hakk...v-test-review/
Nokian Nordman 7 -- https://alltyretests.com/nokian-nord...v-test-review/
Nokian Nordman RS2 -- https://alltyretests.com/nokian-nord...2-test-review/
Nokian WR D4 (since replaced by WR G4) -- https://alltyretests.com/nokian-wr-d4-test-review/
Pirelli Winter iceControl -- https://alltyretests.com/pirelli-win...l-test-review/
Toyo Observe GSI 6 -- https://alltyretests.com/toyo-observ...p-test-review/
Viking Snowtech 2 -- https://alltyretests.com/viking-snowtech-2-test-review/
Vredestein Arctrac -- https://alltyretests.com/vredestein-...c-test-review/
Vredestein Nord Trac 2 -- https://alltyretests.com/vredestein-...2-test-review/
Vredestein Snowtrac 5 -- https://alltyretests.com/vredestein-...5-test-review/
Vredestein Wintrac Ice -- https://alltyretests.com/vredestein-...e-test-review/
Vredestein Wintrac Pro -- https://alltyretests.com/vredestein-...o-test-review/
Vredestein Wintrac Xtreme S -- https://alltyretests.com/vredestein-...s-test-review/
Yokohama Ice Guard ig51v -- https://alltyretests.com/yokohama-ic...v-test-review/
#106
Yeah, the Nokian WR G4's that I currently have are a noticeable step down in flat-out grip on the wintry stuff as compared to the Hakkas, Blizzak or similar "serious" ice+snow tires. Not that level of grip, but still really good. It'd be interesting to see comparative grip on a similarly-shod Subaru, Audi, Jeep, etc., versus the CX-series Mazdas. Haven't yet found such a tire test or review. Perhaps Tire Rack might pick up the full Nokian line and add them to their various tests and reviews.
Yup.
Have driven both in the winter, much more frequently in an '80s vintage Subaru AWD wagon, but also the Audi Q5 Quattro and the S6 Quattro. As you say, serious winter "machines," those. Proper ice+snow tires for winter make the most difference but, still, whatever it is Subaru and Audi do with their AWD system, they certainly do it right.
Yup.
Have driven both in the winter, much more frequently in an '80s vintage Subaru AWD wagon, but also the Audi Q5 Quattro and the S6 Quattro. As you say, serious winter "machines," those. Proper ice+snow tires for winter make the most difference but, still, whatever it is Subaru and Audi do with their AWD system, they certainly do it right.
#107
At least they could make it an options package. Say, three possible tires available if you order it new from Mazda, then you can have it delivered with whichever tire you believe is most appropriate.
Sadly, until the UTQG tread life ratings can be had in a "winter" tire that match what a "summer" tire has, I seriously doubt any of the makers are going to do that.
#108
My thoughts exactly. One would think that Mazda could make the distinction between their AWD models and the non-AWD, and shod them accordingly. On the non-AWD, assume folks want a more typical non-winter-capable tire, but on the AWD models, most particularly in the CX-series, assume people are doing AWD for a purpose and will most likely want a modestly winter-capable tire.
At least they could make it an options package. Say, three possible tires available if you order it new from Mazda, then you can have it delivered with whichever tire you believe is most appropriate.
Sadly, until the UTQG tread life ratings can be had in a "winter" tire that match what a "summer" tire has, I seriously doubt any of the makers are going to do that.
At least they could make it an options package. Say, three possible tires available if you order it new from Mazda, then you can have it delivered with whichever tire you believe is most appropriate.
Sadly, until the UTQG tread life ratings can be had in a "winter" tire that match what a "summer" tire has, I seriously doubt any of the makers are going to do that.
#109
Well, after driving a few times in snow and on slippery roads, I have come to the conclusion the AWD CX-5 is terrible. The vehicle loses traction and wants break loose and lose control very easily. My sons Honda Civic FWD handles the same conditions much better.
So, I am hoping the issue is Mazda put lousy tires on these vehicles to keep the price down. Even if that is the case, shame on Mazda for putting such junk on vehicles that are driven in winter climates. It is also amazing to me that stability control ins't a standard feature on these vehicles. I had it on my Toyota Tundra, and even in 2WD with an empty bed, it was almost impossible to get the truck to lose traction.
Anyone else have the same experience with the CX-5?
So, I am hoping the issue is Mazda put lousy tires on these vehicles to keep the price down. Even if that is the case, shame on Mazda for putting such junk on vehicles that are driven in winter climates. It is also amazing to me that stability control ins't a standard feature on these vehicles. I had it on my Toyota Tundra, and even in 2WD with an empty bed, it was almost impossible to get the truck to lose traction.
Anyone else have the same experience with the CX-5?
#110
According to users with more than 3M miles driven on the things, people who've posted reviews on TireRack suggest that fewer than one in three people would recommend purchasing the Toyo A23. They rank 9th from the bottom of TireRack's list of tires in the category, and downright dangerous in "Winter" performance: Crossover/SUV Touring All-Season tire ratings @ TireRack. Nobody's idea of a safe "winter" season tire, let alone a good one given the alternatives.
The OP apparently lives (lived) in northern Wisconsin. Ice, snow, to say nothing of the frigid temperatures. If the OP had used a great winter tire suited for nasty winter conditions, I'd bet the experience would be much like yours, mine and that of countless others. (On Toyo A23's? That's a bit like thinking a $9.95 Zebco reel and rod at K-Mart will be sufficient for taking tuna in the Atlantic, IMO.)
Might have been interesting to know what specific tires the OP purchased for the Subaru.