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Intermittent trouble starting 323 '89 Mazda

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  #1  
Old 12-08-2009, 06:18 AM
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Default Intermittent trouble starting 323 '89 Mazda

My car has trouble starting. If my vocabulary is right, it turns over (means the starter runs right?) but doesn't start the main engine. It basically makes the *eh hem eh hem* sound but doesn't start. Imagine the first 1/2 sec of a car before it starts--my car makes that sound continually when it chooses not to start.

This is an issue also because the problem is intermittent. The problem seems to be more frequent in cold and/or wet weather. Also, after it does start and runs for just a few minutes at least, it will be able to startup right away if it hasn't sit longer than an hour or so I'd say.

I've had some success with trying it a few times to start when it gives me trouble, and then waiting a few minutes to attempt to start again a few tries. Basically just giving it a turn of the key for a few seconds, 2-3 times, and then waiting 2-3 minutes to try again. However, I've always had success in push-starting the car and popping the clutch in motion while in first to be able to start the car.

I've had to replace my ignition switch after, what I imagine was burnt-out, from attempting to start it so many times. Also my ignition coil has been replaced as my father thought originally that it might have been that.

My father is convinced that it is electrical--but being that it's an intermittent problem he thinks it will be really hard to diagnose.

I asked an older friend quite knowledgeable about cars, and he thinks that it might be the starter. He told me it's likely that the starter isn't catching the fly-wheel--possibly because the some of the teeth on the fly-wheel are flattened out. He says that this would prevent the main engine from turning over and that would explain how by push-starting my car I "manually" turn the fly-wheel by putting the car in motion as I pop the clutch. This all seems to at least make sense. My father isn't the best at explaining but argues that if the fly-wheel wasn't catching then the starter would "zing" and make a quick high pitch whine as the fly-wheel just spun. I am not having any "zing" however by the fly-wheel.

If it is electrical, do you guys know I could test for it? I do have an voltage meter and wouldn't mind dicking around for a few hours to test likely locations. My father thinks an electrical problem is likely to explain the intermittentcy of it, however thinks that because of that, it wouldn't be possible to test for it unless I got lucky and tested it when it wasn't working.
 
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Old 12-21-2009, 05:26 AM
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bump!
 
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Old 12-22-2009, 10:09 PM
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The first 2 paragraphs of this thread sound identical to the problems I am having with my 91 Mazda 323...I just posted a thread explaining very similar symptoms. I will be checking your thread for responses...I hope someone can help us. I'm pretty sure the problem with mine is fuel related. And I've narrowed it down to the fuel pump or fuel pump relay. I would recommend checking your relay/pump, since you have a voltmeter handy. Check out my thread and let me know if it sounds like problems you are having.
 
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Old 01-08-2010, 09:54 AM
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Very interesting post, my friend. I'm currently experiencing something quite similar with the same car.

Up till recently, my 323 has ALWAYS started with the first turn of the key. I started the car one ice-cold morning and began scrapping ice & snow from the windows, like always. After about a minute or so, the engine died. Weird, but no prob, I thought and attempted to restart. I noticed the cranking or "turning-over" suddenly sounded different -easier and lighter somehow, but without any signs (sound or smell) of firing or combustion. I immediately suspected the cam belt had torn, so I removed three of the four cam belt/pulley cover bolts (didn't feel for reaching for the fourth). It was enough to see the belt was in-tact and indeed turning the pulley. Everything looked right, but when I touched the pulley, it wiggled! I'm not sure how the pulley is connected (center bolt, surrounding bolts or welded/one piece). I'll have to completely to remove the belt/pulley cover to see. Either way, I suspect the connection is kaputt even though it's in place.
Regarding your starter, I doubt it's a case of missing teeth as your father suggested, but more so that the solenoid which pops the gear into place isn't deploying the pinion.

Interested in your progress -Keep us posted!
 
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Old 01-11-2010, 10:15 AM
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Update!

I can now confirm my suspicion of the camshaft not turning. Today I removed the 4th bolt which holds the plastic, upper cam belt cover in place. The threaded camshaft stem (to which the camshaft pulley is bolted) was twisted/snapped off and it still had the nut on. It's currently resting between the crank pulley and belt. The pulley its self is completely undamaged (it actually looks kinda new). Since the snap, the camshaft pulley was being held in place by its collar and the belt. Hence the wiggle. I'm quite certain I'll have to get a new camshaft. I only hope it's not expensive -and that the S.O.B. will just drop into place. I'm also worried about getting everything back to the correct alignment/position because the engine has been turned-over numerous times while trying to start it.
Anyone ever exchange a camshaft -what will I be facing?
 
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Old 01-14-2010, 08:07 AM
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I've now got a pretty good idea of what needs to happen. I've removed the valve cover (no big deal) and had a look at the mechanical intestines. Looks like all I'll need is a 15mm crown (or castle?) socket to unscrew the 10 bolts holding the 5 bearing housings in place. I do realize I'll need a torque wrench when replacing them. I'm sure the torque specs are here (at this site somewhere). I must say, I was a bit disappointed to not find a pictorial, step-by-step here.
 
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Old 01-14-2010, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by kaputt323
The threaded camshaft stem (to which the camshaft pulley is bolted) was twisted/snapped off and it still had the nut on. It's currently resting between the crank pulley and belt. The pulley its self is completely undamaged (it actually looks kinda new). Since the snap, the camshaft pulley was being held in place by its collar and the belt. Hence the wiggle. I'm quite certain I'll have to get a new camshaft. I only hope it's not expensive -and that the S.O.B. will just drop into place. I'm also worried about getting everything back to the correct alignment/position because the engine has been turned-over numerous times while trying to start it.
My concern is that you haven't identified the reason for why the end of the camshaft sheared off. Something was preventing the camshaft from rotating. You might have valve damage.
 
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Old 01-15-2010, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Gimme3Doors
My concern is that you haven't identified the reason for why the end of the camshaft sheared off. Something was preventing the camshaft from rotating. You might have valve damage.
Great insight, Gimme! You've given me a whole new perspective. I'm guessing the pulley is the way it is in order to protect the pistons, cylinders and the rest of the head should something seize up.

I did a little more dismantling today by removing the rocker arm assembly. The valves and springs are still in place. The camshaft has a ca. 26mm machined profile and the pulley end which I tried turning with a crescent wrench, but no go. It's as if the shaft was welded to the head. I'm guessing (that's about all I do these days) one or more of the bearings is (are) fouled.

Question A: With out the rockers in place, should I have been able to turn the camshaft?

Question B: What size are those crown bolts holding down the cam shaft bearings and are they also what connects the head to the block?

Question C: Will I have to remove the head in order to slide out the cam shaft?
 
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Old 01-16-2010, 06:23 AM
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I did some hands-on research on 323 donor car at junkyard today.

Question A: With out the rockers in place, should I have been able to turn the camshaft?

Answer: Yes, but with the cam belt in still on, I'd also be turning the combined resistance of the alternator and crank. With out the belt on the cam pulley, I could turn it with just a finger.

Question B: What size are those crown bolts holding down the cam shaft bearings and are they also what connects the head to the block?

Answer: 12mm and the correct term is head bolt.

Question C: Will I have to remove the head in order to slide out the cam shaft?

Answer: No.

Unfortunately, I still haven't removed the cam shaft from my own 323, so I still haven't identified the true reason the pulley bolt snapped off.
 

Last edited by kaputt323; 01-16-2010 at 06:29 AM.
  #10  
Old 01-16-2010, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by kaputt323
I still haven't identified the true reason the pulley bolt snapped off.
Is this a B6 SOHC engine? I find it quite extraordinary that the pulley would shear off the end of the camshaft. What I would expect to happen if the camshaft were to suddenly seize up is the timing belt to strip or even snap at the crankshaft gear where the number of teeth in contact with the gear is minimal. Anything is possible though.

The Mazda workshop manual doesn't give much info on replacing the camshaft other than you need to make sure you don't mix various parts from their original position. I'm also thinking it might be a better idea to pull the whole head and take it to a machine shop that works on Japanese cars, let them figure it out. Otherwise you have a real project on your hand.
 


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