323 turns over, but won't idle
 

Car details: 1993 1.6 SOHC, in a 1991 323

Car was running 'fine', but it was leaking coolant from the passenger side of the engine. No problem - bought a new water pump and timing belt. Replaced both, rotated crank shaft four times (to ensure timing belt wasn't off). Put everything back together, and turned it on.

Car turns over, but won't idle. If I give it gas immediately after starting, it will keep going. But, once I quit giving it gas, it dies. I'm guessing it's getting gas and spark (since it will keep going with a little gas). Any ideas on what to check or where to look next?

RE: 323 turns over, but won't idle
 

Looked into things more today (while the sun was up - easier to see that way). Found a small intake hose coming off the resonator box that I'd missed before (it was getting dark when I put everything back together). Reconnected the hose, and she started right up.

Problem now is that the car is still using a lot of coolant. I checked the water pump and hoses (to the radiator and the heater core). They all seem to be intact. I'm getting some drips off the back of the engine where I can't see and some seepage from between the head and block...

Anyone know how to check the head gasket without pulling the head?

RE: 323 turns over, but won't idle
 

Seepage is not a good sign, but on the good sideitshouldn't be hard to replace the head gasket onthat car.
You could use compressed air to pressurize the cylinder(s) in question and see if the seepage becomes more obvious? If you experience leak down during the time of the test, you may want to consider getting the valves done at the same time. Mileage is also a good indicator here.
This should be obvious, but make sure the valves on that cylinder are closed at the time you run the test.

RE: 323 turns over, but won't idle
 

That's kinda what I thought.... Along the lines of more info - I had a thermostat go, leading to an overheat. From what I understand it's a pretty common occurrence and leads to replacing (in order) thermostat, water pump, and head gasket.

Fortunately, I've got a back-up car, so I'll be checking things out from weekend to weekend. Is the compressed air checking for the same things as a compression test? I don't want to spend too much $$$ (currently in school, car's not worth >$1000 to begin with) on the car, but I also don't want to destroy a good run-about by skimping on a $5 part.

RE: 323 turns over, but won't idle
 

Overheating an aluminum head on cast iron is almost a guarantee that the head warped or at least that the head gasket is shot.
What I was thinking was more along the lines of 200psi of compressed air over a 10min period to see what happens. However, if the valves/valve seats need dressing, or the rings are also in question, you may experience continual leak down.
To simplify matters, why not just replace the $5 part...the head gasket, and be done w/it, hopefully? You might even do a little home "machining" to help the situation and save some money on a car that "not worth >$1000."
If you're of a mind to, you might also consider hogging out and matching the ports for better flow. What have you got to lose, right?

RE: 323 turns over, but won't idle
 

I kinda figured I'd end up replacing the head gasket at some point. Just not in an ideal place/situation to do so at the moment.

If I pull the head, I'm planning on doing things right - check everything I can, replace all the $0.02 parts, etc...

Thanks for the advice on checking the head gasket. I'll be sure to post updates as they happen (assuming anyone is interested).

RE: 323 turns over, but won't idle
 

It's nice that you want to do it up right, but careful you don't spend more on the repair than the car is worth, unless you are planning a long term project for the car.
These days, every repair (and machining too) can cost a small fortune.

RE: 323 turns over, but won't idle
 

Ok, so project to date...

Decided to bite the bullet and pull the head. I couldn't figure out where the coolant was leaking from on the backside of the engine - checked all the hoses and anything else I could get at, used a mirror and still didn't see anything. I thought if it was the head gasket, running the engine repeatedly to check for the source of the leak might cause it to start leaking into the oil - a main-bearing job from what I've heard (supposedly, the antifreeze is an abbrasive that will eventually cause the main bearings to fail. I'm inclined to believe it - I had an Audi with head gasket problems. Oil looked like someone with pneumonia hocked a lugie onto my dipstick. Bearings started going shortly after that.).

Removed everything but the timing belt and head itself on Friday. Removed everything else Monday evening, and took the head to a well-recommended machine shop this morning.

When I pulled the intake manifold off, you could definitely see dried coolant on the backside of the block - not so much on the head. You can see on the head gasket where the coolant was leaking to the backside of the engine between the #2 and #3 cylinders. Head gasket wasn't 'blown' (seen a couple of those... pretty spectacular), so I'm really worried about warpage.

Should hear from machine shop by tomorrow. They're supposed to be a really good shop - they specialize in this kind of work. They pressure test the head; check for cracks, leaks, etc.; and check everything else out while they're at it. $58 for the test, $100 if they have to re-surface. Hopefully I don't need valve work... (closer to $200 to have it done).

My main problem at this point is lack of access to tools/equipment. I've had to buy some tools (ie 12-pt socket and a 3" 1/2" drive extension to pull the head bolts), but all of the fun diagnostic tools are pretty expensive. Checked around to see if I could get a leak-down test done, and they quoted me 30 min per cylinder at $60/hr. Grrr.

RE: 323 turns over, but won't idle
 

Yeah, antifreeze will chew up a lot of things.
Sounds like you're on the right track though... and the prices you are quoting sound pretty cheap to me!!

RE: 323 turns over, but won't idle
 

Cheap? They're quite a bit higher than the last time I had to fix a head (course that was 10+ years ago).

So, I got everything back tomorrow. Scraped gaskets, cleaned surfaces, etc. Put it all back together, and poured coolant into the radiator, and...

Coolant started leaking down the backside of the engine.

Now, this was the reason I decided to pull the head in the first place. Problem is, I still don't know where it's leaking from. I couldn't see the leak before, and it was too dark when I filled the radiator. So, my problem is, did I just miss a hose when I put it together, or did I make things worse? Before, it only leaked when the engine was hot, and only a drip at a time... This time, the engine had not been started, and the coolant gushed out.

Grrrrrrrrr.

Anyone got any ideas?