95 Won't start but it's trying

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95 Won't start but it's trying

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Mazda Forums >> Mazda Vehicles >> Mazda Millenia >> 95 Won't start but it's trying

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95 Won't start but it's trying - 4/4/2007 12:26:48 AM

bigwilly

Posts: 14
Joined: 4/1/2007
Status: offline

Replaced the Starter. Put a new battery in it. Corrected the firing order. Installed a new fuel filter. Pulled the codes. Came up with five. The mil code was P0335 - Crankshaft POS sensor, replaced that. P1000 - More driving needed to complete test (not going to happen today). P1775 - Not in my book but my PC says tourqe value something or other. P1776 and P1790, not in my book, confuses the heck out of my PC. The darn thing still won't turn over. It's trying though. I thought that it was going to do it today when I finished replacing the POS sensor but I'll be darned if I didn't smell fuel. Could this be a vacum problem? I figure I'll check the pressure off the pump this weekend and see what it shows. Bad fuel? Clogged injectors? Maybe a bad regulator? Any way to check the ECM? I pulled codes so I figure it must still be working but... Any ideas would be great because I'm running out and I'm about ready to give up and call a junker.

Post #: 1

RE: 95 Won't start but it's trying - 4/5/2007 7:35:39 PM

2000smazda

Posts: 120
Joined: 6/14/2006
Status: offline

What model, make and year is your car? The only thing I can find on those codes is in the transmission section! Try pulling the code again? P1776 (3-2 timing solenoid cicuit fault) P1790 (throttle position sensor malfunction) Does the motor turn over by hand?

(in reply to bigwilly)

Post #: 2

RE: 95 Won't start but it's trying - 4/5/2007 8:16:16 PM

babyhuey

Posts: 2759
Joined: 7/28/2005
Status: offline

I was wondering the same 2000smazda. Is the Milly actually turning over when cranking the engine or is it maybe just really struggling and crank speed is very slow? Fuel and other things would have nothing to do with no start if that is the case.
The 1775 and 1776 codes are torque reduction signal codes. When the Transmission computer wants to perform a upshift or downshift it will tell the engine computer this by changing the voltage at a wire between the TCM and PCM from B+ to less than 1.0 volt. The engine computer will then reduce the power of the engine by cutting some fuel injection, adjusting spark timing, etc, to allow for a smoother shift. The 1175 is for signal loss during 1-2 or 2-3 upshift. 1176 is for signal loss during any downshift.
P1790 is as 2000smazda stated about the throttle sensor. If the closed throttle position switch is "off" and throttle sensor signal voltage is greater than 4.94 volts or less than .097 volts then it will store this code. Surprised it did not also set a P0120 which is the PCM indicating the same malfunction and not just the TCM setting the P1790.

(in reply to 2000smazda)

Post #: 3

RE: 95 Won't start but it's trying - 4/6/2007 12:57:00 AM

bigwilly

Posts: 14
Joined: 4/1/2007
Status: offline

This is a 1995 Millenia with the V6, 2.5l; DOHC 24 valve engine. I have the thing stored at in my grandfathers garage right now. I can't keep it around here (HOA and everything). I'm going to check the fuel pressure saturday, I'll try pulling the codes, and it sounds like I need to test the Throttle Posit Switch.
Love these

ECM controlled cars. One little thing and they just won't work. I'll have an update for you all on Saturday (unless I can sneek up there on Friday and check that switch). Thanks again for the help. Maybe I'll get this thing running before I give up.

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Post #: 4

RE: 95 Won't start but it's trying - 4/14/2007 12:53:54 AM

bigwilly

Posts: 14
Joined: 4/1/2007
Status: offline

Finally got this pos to fire, but it was a wee bit off on the timing. The exhaust came out of the air intake. The trouble shooting guide on Alldata.com says that I should try a bypass on the fuel pump relay. Says this should fix the problem. But, just to rule out anything else I started checking a few other things. I set the Crankshaft at DTC and pulled the rotor cap. Instead of pointing at the number one post it was pointing at the number five post. Without pulling the Timing belt cover I can only guess that the timing belt has been installed incorrectly at some other point in time, or am I reading the manual wrong? I'm going to try the Fuel pump relay by-pass this weekend and see what happens. If that doesn't work, then I'll try re-plugging the cap in the order that the engine seems to be set up for. Any other ideas would be great. I guess I've spent enough time in this engine that I might as well finish what I started.

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Post #: 5

RE: 95 Won't start but it's trying - 4/14/2007 11:35:34 AM

keninn

Posts: 389
Joined: 9/2/2005
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was this thing running before you replaced the starter?

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Post #: 6

RE: 95 Won't start but it's trying - 4/14/2007 2:39:44 PM

bigwilly

Posts: 14
Joined: 4/1/2007
Status: offline

Unfortunately, I am not privy to the vehicles history prior to my purchase of it. Only thing that I got was that it had a bad starter. I've found so far that some of the items that I have replaced had junk yard pulls in their place, so I wonder if the prior owner tried to fix some problems by hitting the junk yard but didn't bother to check to see if the parts were any good.
I tested all three of these items and they were bad, so I replaced them. If you know the costs of them then you understand my desire to finish what I started.
- Starter
- Crankshaft Posit sensor
- Throttle Posit sensor
I'm going to run out to storage and give it another try now. I guess I'll pull the Timing Cover and see if the timing is wrong.

(in reply to keninn)

Post #: 7

RE: 95 Won't start but it's trying - 4/14/2007 8:40:13 PM

babyhuey

Posts: 2759
Joined: 7/28/2005
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Would be a very good idea to check the base timing at the cam and crankshaft pullys to make sure they are on as well as the distributor being lined up correctly. Since you do not know what has been tinkered with before you got the Milly is better to start with engine basics. Your timing belt could have also jumped a bunch of teeth from damaged belt or a collapsed belt tensioner. The belt tension is hydraulic and located at lower rear of engine with covers removed. If you can compress the little piston by hand at all it is collapsed and will need replaced. Below are a few pics of t belt alignment marks and the tensioner. First of tensioner will show compressing with a vice as this is the only way it should be able to compressed. Place a washer on the bottom where you see a little allen head plug so this plug is not pressed against but only the body of the tensioner

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Post #: 8

RE: 95 Won't start but it's trying - 4/15/2007 2:52:22 AM

bigwilly

Posts: 14
Joined: 4/1/2007
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For anyone that has been following, here is an update. I pulled part of the timing cover and noticed a large amount of oil present on and around the timing belt. I pulled some tech bulletins on the 2.5l engine and found one about an oil leak near the #3 engine mount. The bulletin recommends a repair procedure that sounds like it came from a plumbing manual and replacement of the timing belt. I also noticed a large amount of oil coming out around the number one cylinder area of the engine under the valve heads. I don't know if this is from a leaky head gasket or from this leak around the engine mount. I'm in discussions now with my wife with what to do next. Seems like I might end up pulling the whole engine and tear it down and rebuild. I figure the timing belt can be done in car but I don't know about the oil down the back side of the engine. Anybody run into this problem with the leaky engine mount? I'm going to start buying stuff to replace the timing belt. Figure the tensioner is FUBAR and replace that too. Thanks for the help.

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Post #: 9

RE: 95 Won't start but it's trying - 4/15/2007 8:23:21 PM

babyhuey

Posts: 2759
Joined: 7/28/2005
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If you are getting oil into the #1 spark plug hole, down where the spark plugs thread into the cylinder head then you definitely have leaking valve cover gaskets and if it is leaking into the plug wells can almost guarantee that it is leaking down the front backside of the engine. Both are very common leakage points. Mazda even came up with different design valve cover gaskets to address the problem. Make sure that if you replace valve cover gaskets you replace all of the little grommets at each valve cover attaching bolt. The rubber portion of the grommet is what actually applies the downward pressure evenly onto the gasket. You will find them a little pricy but have heard of way to many people skipping this step and have leaking gaskets again the following month.

Do not know where you saw the TSB about the #3 engine mount but it is TSB D001/96. It does not apply to your Millenia but only the 2.3L engine in the 1995 Milly S. One of the threaded holes for the front engine mount intersected an oil gallery and would allow engine to seap past the threads. That is the reason for the teflon tape.
Front camshaft and crankshaft oil seals are also very common to leak oil. Always replace them at every timing belt change on the 2.5L KL engine as well as the V6 MPV. Between the valve covers and front cam/crank seals, that would account for the oil on the timing belt. Were I you, I would get the timing covers off and give a good inspection of the timing belt alignment marks before thnking of pursuing a full engine R&R for overhaul. Could be just in need of timing belt, tensioner, and some valve cover gaskets.

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Post #: 10