Cam friction gear spring ??'s

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Cam friction gear spring ??'s

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Cam friction gear spring ??'s - 2/3/2007 12:38:15 AM

Am4wag

Posts: 66
Joined: 12/31/2006
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I recently purchased a new/updated friction gear spring,KLY1-12-417A,and nut,KLO1-12-412A,to address the awful noise I have in my 2.5.I just want to make sure I have the right nut,before I "take my car down".The nut has 2 flats on each side,that would go between the 2 tangs on the inside of the new (updated) spring.However,I'm not sure it should have any play,which the new nut would allow (it appears to be) about 1/4 in.play in both directions once recessed into the spring.The following page,this guy ground 2 notches into an old nut,to match-up with an updated spring,but this doesn't look like it would allow any play,which I would tend to think is more desireable.

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/b4tn/friction/friction_spring.htm

Is the new/updated combination of nut and washer supposed to incorporate some measure of freeplay,yet not allow the spring/washer to spin against the nut?I tried to upload pics.,but the file is too big.I will be happy to send pics. via email to someone who could determine if actually I do have the correct parts.

Post #: 1

RE: Cam friction gear spring ??'s - 2/3/2007 7:49:33 PM

babyhuey

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Joined: 7/28/2005
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Those are the right part numbers for the updated friction gear spring and nut as per the TSB B005/98. The old spring and nut did not have any flats at all but only round. The flats are less important than the fact that the new spring is stonger and will apply more pressure to the camshaft gears. You did get two of each? One for each bank of the engine. Depiction below not great but was all I could find of the old and new parts.

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RE: Cam friction gear spring ??'s - 2/3/2007 11:33:39 PM

Am4wag

Posts: 66
Joined: 12/31/2006
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Only the rear bank is rowdy.From reading through what little I can find via internet searches,the rear bank seems to always be the source of the noise,same in my case,from the rear bank;so I only ordered 1 of each.I have'nt heard any noise from the front bank,but if you (I assume you've done this,beings you replied-thankyou) suggest doing the front also (makes sense to me-for preventive measures/while "I'm in there),I won't hesitate to order another set and do the front.BTW,is there a torque specification for this nut,or do I simply crank it down with say,Lock-tite (blue)?

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Post #: 3

RE: Cam friction gear spring ??'s - 2/7/2007 7:03:11 PM

babyhuey

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Have always just done both as that was what was recommend in the TSB. You could certainly try just doing the rear bank first and if is then quiet then so be it. If not then would not be any more difficult to replace the front one later anyway. If you are getting some oil leakage from front valve cover into the spark plug wells then would also be a good time to get the spring replaced as well.
Torque spec for the lock-nut is 55-61 ft-lbs or 74-83 Nm depending on what measurement system your torque wrench measures in.

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Post #: 4

RE: Cam friction gear spring ??'s - 2/7/2007 8:34:54 PM

Am4wag

Posts: 66
Joined: 12/31/2006
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Thanks for your reply babyhuey.....matter of fact,while I'm going this deep,I'm replacing the water pump,thermostat,timing belt,all pullys,and the drive belts.If the hydraulic tensioner is bad,I can have a new one in a day for $97(?).Got all the parts including the intake gasket,plenum gasket,valve cover gaskets and cam seals too.I think while I have it down,I'll go on and order another spring/washer and do the front one also.Hey,thanks for the torque info. too....Regards to you.

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RE: Cam friction gear spring ??'s - 2/8/2007 12:46:58 AM

babyhuey

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Sounds like you have quite a project ahead of you Am4wag. Sounds like you are doing a good,complete job of getting some maintenance/repairs done and replacing parts well in need of service. Have a question about some part of the job then do not hesitate in giving a call back. Have been there and done that a number of times so will try help best as I can if you run into a pinch.

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RE: Cam friction gear spring ??'s - 2/15/2007 2:39:57 PM

alec_b

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Joined: 2/12/2007
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Word of wisdom... replace BOTH cam seals and the crank seal while you're in there. You've got to take everything apart to do them, and depending on the mileage they're probably due. Believe me, i just did them on my car, and the cam seals literally dissintigrated into my hands when i removed the pulley's. It's cheap insurance for later on down the road. I think the 3 seals combined will only be like $25 bucks or so.

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RE: Cam friction gear spring ??'s - 2/15/2007 3:48:55 PM

Am4wag

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Joined: 12/31/2006
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Ditto alec_b.I just got the 2nd. spring and nut (as per suggestion from babyhuey) I ordered.I'm waiting for it to somewhat warm-up.It's been awful here with an ice storm and lost electric for 3 days.I went on and ordered a valve cover set,as I only had ordered the rear bank gasket.So that should be in Monday.I'm thinking next week "I'll take the car down".

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Post #: 8

RE: Cam friction gear spring ??'s - 3/7/2007 7:53:27 PM

Am4wag

Posts: 66
Joined: 12/31/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: babyhuey

Sounds like you have quite a project ahead of you Am4wag. Sounds like you are doing a good,complete job of getting some maintenance/repairs done and replacing parts well in need of service. Have a question about some part of the job then do not hesitate in giving a call back. Have been there and done that a number of times so will try help best as I can if you run into a pinch.

OK babyhuey,I'm taking you up on the offer of advice.Sure enough,the spring has been spinning on the nut.I got it all apart.Taking the front (sprocket end) cam cap off,I managed to chip a tooth on the intake cam gear.It is ONLY the very corner and I don't think I need to be alarmed.I got the cam clamped in a vise on the hex portion,and tried to take that nut off of the frictin gear with a wrench.Ended up useing an impact to "zip" it off.Now going back w/the updated spring and nut.I just wanted to ask again,the torque.55-61 ft.lb's.?I got it to about (I'm useing a 3/4 drive 1 5/8 in.socket w/1/2 in.-3/4 in. adapter) 65 ft.lb's.;just seems like it would need a little more,and maybe use some blue locktite.What about getting the driven gear and the friction gear teeth to line up?I've already seen how brittle these gears are,and don't want a cotastrophy.

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Post #: 9

RE: Cam friction gear spring ??'s - 3/7/2007 8:19:27 PM

babyhuey

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Joined: 7/28/2005
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65 is more than tight enough and I don't think a small chip is going to give you any trouble. Here is the camshaft install instructions from the factory shop manual. Will this work.
Camshaft Installation Note

1. Apply clean engine oil to the camshaft journals, camshaft lobes, and camshaft gears.
2. Install the camshafts so that the intake camshaft gear mark and exhaust camshaft gear mark align. Adjust the friction gear position with a screwdriver so that the HLAs are not lifted by the cam lobes. (Intake side cam lobes of the No.1 cylinder (RH) and No.2 cylinder (LH) face straight up.)

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3. Install the thrust caps onto the cylinder head. Hand tighten the cap bolts gradually in 5 or 6 steps in the order shown, until the thrust caps are fully seated on the cylinder head.

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CAUTION:

Install the thrust caps (5 mark on RH, B mark on LH) first. Otherwise, camshaft can be broken or damaged.
4. Apply silicone sealant to the shaded areas as shown.

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CAUTION:

Because there is little camshaft thrust clearance, the camshaft must be held horizontally while it is installed. Otherwise, excessive force will be applied to the thrust area, causing burr on the thrust receiving area of the cylinder head journal. To avoid this, the following procedure must be observed.

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5. Install the camshaft caps according to their identification marks, and hand tighten the bolts.
NOTE:

RH: numbers
LH: letters
6. Tighten the bolts in the order shown. Verify that the camshaft remains horizontal as the camshaft cap bolts (marked 1 in the figure) are tightened.

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Tightening torque

11.3--14.2 N·m {115--145 kgf·cm, 100--125 in·lbf}
7. Tighten the bolts again in the order shown.

Tightening torque

11.3--14.2 N·m {115--145 kgf·cm, 100--125 in·lbf}
8. Apply clean engine oil to the lip of the new camshaft oil seal.
9. Push in the oil seal slightly by hand.
10. Tap in the camshaft oil seal evenly with the SST and a hammer

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< Message edited by babyhuey -- 3/7/2007 8:33:00 PM >

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Post #: 10