Rough Start up
#11
06-05-2013, 06:13 PM
Too often have heard people on forums dumping insane amounts of money and time into a problem only to still have the problem. Which is Stupid. Replacing one Expensive part $250+ to completely resolve a issue is perfectly fine. Chasing a problem with $250+ worth of possibilities only to turn around and have to spend another $200 to finally fix it, because you finally narrowed down, is equally stupid.
The next time you do a repair or chase a problem, figure out what all the nickel and dime crap is really costing you. Maybe with no diagnostic resources or experience you feel you may not have much choice. Yet, $250+ would buy a few DIY ALL Data Subscriptions. DHAuto is a repair shop and a lucrative one because I try not to GUESS and do not waste money. Assumptions are a waste of my time/money and customers time/money. Getting good parts cheap and cutting down diagnostic time to increase volume, decrease come backs by doing the job the right the first time, and saving my customers money is what we do.
This vehicle is my personal work mobile. Personally I would like to keep my investment below the cars Fair Value. That way when OR IF it is sold i will recoup all my expense. If not sold then the resto will begin and that 1.8l is coming out for a freshened up 2.5l anyway.
So if you have any constructive ideas i would love to hear them. Otherwise i appreciate everyone who has responded to try and help. All of your ideas may culminate into one all for nothing repair when i have sufficient information to make a WELL EDUCATED guess.
Right now i have a customers explorer in here getting a new face lift. Once thats done i will tear into the Mazda to see what i can find.
Thanks again, DHAuto (banana in the tranny, LOL haven't seen that one in a while)
#12
06-05-2013, 06:37 PM
I'm sorry, but cleaning a throttle body, cleaning the MAF and changing the PCV valve (when it's more than likely still original), cleaning the egr valve, installing new gaskets is not a waste of time as you have to take most of the stuff off anyway (and these are common issues that should be done) to get at your injectors which is what other people are saying as well as yourself. I also said you can get the injectors cleaned if you want but you should put on new injectors seals since this is what you've diagnosed and haven't heard of any other possible input.
If you want to tear the engine apart without ordering parts and have your car, or customers car, sit in the shop for days until you get parts, go right ahead.
I'd also rather do it once properly and go the extra mile for the customer.
Really how much longer is it to do the things i suggested since they have to come off anyway?
This is not going to cost an extra $250!!!!!!! To say like you did before that $48 is too expensive as your previous post is ridiculous (so Flame Yourself). It will cost the price of gaskets, which you should change anyway (no extra), spray some fluids for an additional 10 minutes, and change a PCV valve. Injector seals are $25 according to you, oh ya----but that's expensive. Again, the stuff I suggest are not a waste of time and will be extremely helpful in the running of your engine.
If you want to tear the engine apart without ordering parts and have your car, or customers car, sit in the shop for days until you get parts, go right ahead.
I'd also rather do it once properly and go the extra mile for the customer.
Really how much longer is it to do the things i suggested since they have to come off anyway?
This is not going to cost an extra $250!!!!!!! To say like you did before that $48 is too expensive as your previous post is ridiculous (so Flame Yourself). It will cost the price of gaskets, which you should change anyway (no extra), spray some fluids for an additional 10 minutes, and change a PCV valve. Injector seals are $25 according to you, oh ya----but that's expensive. Again, the stuff I suggest are not a waste of time and will be extremely helpful in the running of your engine.
Last edited by UseYourNoggin; 06-05-2013 at 06:39 PM.
#13
06-05-2013, 06:49 PM
You wouldn't be asking our advice in the first place if you had real mechanics, that could diagnose the problem themselves. I would never go to your "lucrative" place, LOL. Maybe your a bodyshop. I have rust issues!
Last edited by UseYourNoggin; 06-05-2013 at 06:54 PM.
#14
06-05-2013, 11:30 PM
I'm sorry, but cleaning a throttle body, cleaning the MAF and changing the PCV valve (when it's more than likely still original), cleaning the egr valve, installing new gaskets is not a waste of time as you have to take most of the stuff off anyway (and these are common issues that should be done) to get at your injectors which is what other people are saying as well as yourself. I also said you can get the injectors cleaned if you want but you should put on new injectors seals since this is what you've diagnosed and haven't heard of any other possible input.
If you want to tear the engine apart without ordering parts and have your car, or customers car, sit in the shop for days until you get parts, go right ahead.
I'd also rather do it once properly and go the extra mile for the customer.
Really how much longer is it to do the things i suggested since they have to come off anyway?
This is not going to cost an extra $250!!!!!!! To say like you did before that $48 is too expensive as your previous post is ridiculous (so Flame Yourself). It will cost the price of gaskets, which you should change anyway (no extra), spray some fluids for an additional 10 minutes, and change a PCV valve. Injector seals are $25 according to you, oh ya----but that's expensive. Again, the stuff I suggest are not a waste of time and will be extremely helpful in the running of your engine.
If you want to tear the engine apart without ordering parts and have your car, or customers car, sit in the shop for days until you get parts, go right ahead.
I'd also rather do it once properly and go the extra mile for the customer.
Really how much longer is it to do the things i suggested since they have to come off anyway?
This is not going to cost an extra $250!!!!!!! To say like you did before that $48 is too expensive as your previous post is ridiculous (so Flame Yourself). It will cost the price of gaskets, which you should change anyway (no extra), spray some fluids for an additional 10 minutes, and change a PCV valve. Injector seals are $25 according to you, oh ya----but that's expensive. Again, the stuff I suggest are not a waste of time and will be extremely helpful in the running of your engine.
Obviously you do not understand what has been said. I never said your ideas were a waste of time. Nor did i say half the stuff you mentioned. The $250 was a Example only not a real cost. Read my second post where i said your ideas would help to make the car run more efficiently. Now,
I said that i do not want to throw parts at the car which include unnecessary services at this time. If i keep this car, which is my car, i will be changing out engines anyway and will live with the issue for now. If i don't keep the car i do not want to sell it with this problem. (that would be uncool)
I am a "Real" mechanic. My scanner does not support a balance test for that OBDI system. I can get a DNA sample from a OBDII/CAN system and works well on most OBDI just not all Asian/Euro. So, If i can save some time and money(By not replacing a old tool) getting the information I'm looking for from the forums (guys and girls who know these cars the best) then i can continue to make money on the jobs i have now. I can then stop wasting time and money throwing parts at a 93 mx3. Many posts ago it was evident that everyone was leaning to wards a leaky injector. As was I. The parts are ordered as we speak.
I have appreciated everyones input and; Tan Protégé, that tool vid tool works great. So why dog me about what i chose to do. You put in your two cents and it has been accepted.(The pcv had been changed and is good)
My customers come to me because i fix what only needs to be fixed. I recommend repairs only if the need arises or like you said if it will help make the vehicle more reliable, but will up sell only if it works for them and their budget. Unfortunately, no business is successfully doing a bunch of things for free, parts have to be paid for, people have to be paid and the lights have to stay on. That said, I have fixed peoples cars over the phone before. Walking them through repairs they decided to tackle themselves and just needed a little guidance. That has earn me business.
Lastly, I never expected anyone to diagnose my car. You should be able to tell from my first post that i already did that. I was looking for someone who had similar experience with the same symptoms who could say YES that or this is the problem. So please leave the forum open for others who may have that information.
Thanks DHAuto
#15
06-06-2013, 08:25 AM
Glad you changed the PCV, hope it wasn't too expensive!
Something you should know about fuel injector cleaning:
The DiY method: Badly clogged injectors may not pass enough solvent during a normal cleaning cycle to be thoroughly cleaned.
This is not really an option open to the do-it-yourselfer because it requires special equipment that can cost anywhere from $4,000 to $8,300. Because of that and the labor involved, a shop may charge you $40+ per injector for removal and cleaning. (Makes you long for the good old days of carburetion, doesn’t it?)
But it’s a lot cheaper than spending at least twice that to replace ruined injectors with new ones, which is what happens when an injector becomes hopelessly clogged. And injectors can be tested, observed, and compared off the car. An injector that’s not passing as much liquid as the others can be re-cleaned. If that doesn’t work and the injector must be replaced, the injector that needs to be replaced is easily pinpointed.
Something you should know about fuel injector cleaning:
The DiY method: Badly clogged injectors may not pass enough solvent during a normal cleaning cycle to be thoroughly cleaned.
This is not really an option open to the do-it-yourselfer because it requires special equipment that can cost anywhere from $4,000 to $8,300. Because of that and the labor involved, a shop may charge you $40+ per injector for removal and cleaning. (Makes you long for the good old days of carburetion, doesn’t it?)
But it’s a lot cheaper than spending at least twice that to replace ruined injectors with new ones, which is what happens when an injector becomes hopelessly clogged. And injectors can be tested, observed, and compared off the car. An injector that’s not passing as much liquid as the others can be re-cleaned. If that doesn’t work and the injector must be replaced, the injector that needs to be replaced is easily pinpointed.
#16
06-06-2013, 08:55 AM
DH: in the time it took you to type your rant you could have tried one of our suggestions.
I am out of this thread.
I am out of this thread.
#17
06-06-2013, 01:09 PM
Glad you changed the PCV, hope it wasn't too expensive!
Something you should know about fuel injector cleaning:
The DiY method: Badly clogged injectors may not pass enough solvent during a normal cleaning cycle to be thoroughly cleaned.
This is not really an option open to the do-it-yourselfer because it requires special equipment that can cost anywhere from $4,000 to $8,300. Because of that and the labor involved, a shop may charge you $40+ per injector for removal and cleaning. (Makes you long for the good old days of carburetion, doesn’t it?)
But it’s a lot cheaper than spending at least twice that to replace ruined injectors with new ones, which is what happens when an injector becomes hopelessly clogged. And injectors can be tested, observed, and compared off the car. An injector that’s not passing as much liquid as the others can be re-cleaned. If that doesn’t work and the injector must be replaced, the injector that needs to be replaced is easily pinpointed.
Something you should know about fuel injector cleaning:
The DiY method: Badly clogged injectors may not pass enough solvent during a normal cleaning cycle to be thoroughly cleaned.
This is not really an option open to the do-it-yourselfer because it requires special equipment that can cost anywhere from $4,000 to $8,300. Because of that and the labor involved, a shop may charge you $40+ per injector for removal and cleaning. (Makes you long for the good old days of carburetion, doesn’t it?)
But it’s a lot cheaper than spending at least twice that to replace ruined injectors with new ones, which is what happens when an injector becomes hopelessly clogged. And injectors can be tested, observed, and compared off the car. An injector that’s not passing as much liquid as the others can be re-cleaned. If that doesn’t work and the injector must be replaced, the injector that needs to be replaced is easily pinpointed.
Noggin you are correct in your injector statement. I only have the ability to clean partially clogged injectors. Most of the time just good enough. You are right that it is cheaper, much much cheaper than new ones a lot of the time. I did work on a 94 ranger a couple years ago that needed injectors cleaned badly. To send them off was $25 each plus shipping, a reman set from injection connection was $110 shipped so the reverse was true. A product and injector cleaning system such as BG's Dragon Fire, does a decent job for the shop, but cant be used on newer vehicles and will not fix bad clogs with out ruining the injector. Using protégé's vid tool i can do more here using a lighter solvent (which is OK for newer cars) unless they are too bad or the car is direct injection. For this Mazda I can get a better price online for the injectors than my local napa They want($270 each, Ouch!) Thats at my cost. But even at online prices cleaning them is way more cost effective in this case like you say.
I did find out (from the stealer) that my fuel pressure readings were actually perfect. I don't know why my information resource which cost me a lot was lacking the info.(They received a not so happy email) The spec for the jumped connector test is actually up to 45psi. So the problem has to be a leaky injector which i know everyone already figured. Thats why i ordered the parts already.
Sorry Tan protégé; The dog me comment was meant for all, Not specifically you. I was in a hurry last night. When i reread the post today I realized how that must have sounded. (By the way I type faster than I work)
I did not want to upset anybody. Sorry if you all felt i was being ungrateful, I wasn't.
Thanks DHAuto
P.S. (The new PCV was already installed when i got the car
)
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